# ETHChiangmai Future Summit 2026 — Live at Chiang Mai University Convention Center

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Source video: ETHChiangmai Future Summit 2026 — Live at Chiang Mai University Convention Center
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Duration: 07:39:37
Transcribed: 2026-07-27 · deepgram nova-3 · PIT BULL harvest fleet v3

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[00:01] Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Ethereum Chimai twenty twenty six future summit. Amila, your host today. This summit is more than just a one day event. It is a grand finale of incredible two months journey. Looking back at Ethereum Chimai twenty twenty five series,

[00:26] we've traveled from the deep connection of our own conference through the rigorous learning of our boot camp all the way to the high intensity innovation of the hackathon. Today, we celebrate the combination of all the building, learning, and dreaming together. Before we dive into today's agenda, we must extend our deepest gratitude to the partners who made this journey possible.

[00:52] Please join me in recognizing our 10 key supporters. First, for our Chi Minh ambassador sponsors, FourSeas, our host and a dedicated Ethereum culture community focusing on the Zulu movement. YPT, providing the vital financial infrastructure and cross border payments for DAOs and creators.

[01:17] BGA, a collaborative network dedicated to using block chain technology to drive global social inform. And next for our education and sponsors, Bylands Thailand, a secure and convenient platform for global crypto trading. Avro, an AI ecosystem powered by proof of intelligent contribution.

[01:41] GCC, supporting digital public goods through their influential Chinese language endowment fund. And next for our community partner sponsors, Uniswap Labs, the leading decentralized exchange empowering open finance. Novus Foundation, supporting long term innovation and growth within the Novus network.

[02:04] Premise, an innovation protocol focused on enhanced web three security and infrastructure, ECF network, the open source wiki serving as a collective memory for our entire industry. Now, guys, let's give a massive round of applause for all of our supporters who made today possible. Well, are you ready to dive into the future? Then let's get a thorough Qumai twenty twenty six future summit

[02:38] officially started. Now it's my great honor to introduce our cohost. The summit would not be possible without the visionary support of Chiang Mai University. By welcoming the ether community to UniServ, they're helping bridge the gap between the world class education and the future of web three.

[03:03] Now please join me in welcoming to the stage the web the vice president of Chinmay University, Radhassid for the opening remarks. Welcome. Good morning.

[03:40] On behalf of, Chiang Mai University, I'm a vice president of, Chiang Mai University in digital technology and law. I would like to, welcome you all to Chiang Mai and Chiang Mai University to join this summit this morning. So distinguished

[04:03] guests, honored speakers, representative from academia industry and public sector, member of Ethereum community, and all participants, good morning. It is a great honor for me as a vice vice president to welcome you to Ethereum Chiang Mai final

[04:26] two thousand twenty six future summit held here in Chiang Mai City, Thailand. Chiang Mai City is a long standing tradition of learning, culture, heritage. It is a place where historical wisdom and contemporary change coexist in harmony.

[04:49] A city of the character provides a appropriate and meaningful setting for discussions on the future technology and society. Today's summit offers an important opportunity to reflect the intersection of cities discussion about the culture

[05:12] and ethereum. Cities are not just a physical locations, but they are living systems where innovation can flourish, where supporting by strong social and culture foundation like we are here today this morning. As institution of higher education,

[05:36] university play a vital role in preparing society to understand and responsible to engage with emerging technologies. And education in the context of Ethereum extends beyond technical knowledge alone, encompassing governance, ethics, and broader social implications.

[06:01] In this regard, Ethereum Chiang Mai final two thousand twenty six is not merely a technology focused conference, but it is an academic and civic forum that connects universities, cities, and global communities fostering dialogue on how innovation can be aligned with human values.

[06:29] So on this occasion, I would like to express my sincere appreciation to the organizing committee final and our speakers and all those involved in making this summit possible. I also thank for all participants for all your thoughtful and your engagement.

[06:54] So May Ethereum Chung Mai final two thousand twenty six. Future summit will be successful and inspiring gathering leading to a meaningful collaboration and sustainable impact in many years to come. So thank you very much. Thank you.

[07:28] Well, now before we begin our first session, I have an important update regarding today's agenda. The TALINK keynote address, which many of you have been looking forward to, has been rescheduled to 4PM this afternoon. We appreciate all your understanding regarding this adjustment, and we promise it will be worth the wait. So now it's my absolute honor to introduce our opening keynote speaker,

[07:55] a true pioneer in his field. Please join me in welcome Michelle Bowens at the founder of the p two p foundation. Michelle is a world renowned theorist and a leading authority on peer to peer dynamics and the commons. We're incredibly privileged to have him here to set a tune for our event. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a very warm welcome to Michelle Bowens.

[08:28] Thank you, and, hello to everyone. I almost didn't come because I had to speak at four. So here we are. So for those who don't know me, I'm from Belgium originally, but I've been living nearly twenty five years in Chiang Mai. I'm the founder of the p two p foundation,

[08:52] and apparently, I was the first and last person to speak publicly with Satoshi Nakamoto. So I have a bit of a relationship with this world, but I'm actually not a techie. And so what I'm going to talk to you about today is kind of a a broader story about, what we mean with cosmolocalism, which actually is quite inspiring a lot of people,

[09:16] here in Chiang Mai. There's been a whole month residency, and I think the people are somewhere around here, like Vivian. So they've been exploring this theme with some people for, like, the whole month. So okay. So let's start with this. I'm sure that, most of you noticed that we live

[09:40] in a very unstable period of history. Right? I think most people will agree with this. There's internal strife. There's a serious risk of war, in Iran, in Taiwan. There's basically, most people, I think, would agree that, world order of World War two that was initiated kind of the American Pax Americana,

[10:06] it is degrading and being replaced, but not we're not sure with what. And I don't know if you probably heard this on Gramsci. So when the old is dying, but the new is not there yet, we are living in a time of monsters. But I actually think that if we look carefully

[10:30] at seed forms, if we look at the emerging of the new, of which Ethereum is a big part, we can see, kind of already the outlines, of the new order. And this is what I call cosmoloculum. So let me kind of explain what it is about. So, basically, when I'm talking about cosmoloculum, I'm talking about a new relationship

[10:54] between the material world and the intellectual world, and maybe also about a method of coordination of value in the world. So we could make a brief history, very brief, of course. And so I would, kind of argue that the first way of coordinating society,

[11:19] in kinship based tribal, forms of life, of social life, was gifting and commoning. Scientists call this, communal shareholding and equality matching. So, basically, either you exchange with the whole, think about the Amish. If you're familiar with the Amish, you still go around with their buggies, and live a religious life, in The US and elsewhere.

[11:45] So when a when a young couple gets married, the whole community mobilizes to make their house. And that young couple doesn't know anything back to any person in particular. Their engagements do the same when another young couple will marry in that community. So that's communal shareholding. And this is what you do when you if you are an open source developer. If you develop some kind of solution for Linux,

[12:11] it's open source. It's an open knowledge commons. You give it to Linux out of the idea. I make this common resource better and everybody including me, will benefit from this stronger common shared resource. Right? So that's communal shareholding. And the second one is gifting. Equality matching sounds a bit, strange, but basically, you know, if I give you a gift,

[12:37] you actually feel the need to to give something back to me. So in some paradoxical way, we have created inequality through gifting, and now you want to give something back to me. So imagine the following. Communal shareholding was dominant in, nomadic communities where there's little property and they can and they move around. But once you settle and you have to make peace with your neighbors, you can't flee,

[13:02] then you use gifting, the gift economy to create social relationships and to try to maintain peace, with your neighbors. And, of course, civilization is something else. Right? Civilization is something else. That's, basically when the tribal modes, dissolves and is replaced by what we know today kind of a class society with managerial classes

[13:26] and product, producing classes and a very complex society with independent institutions. And civilization, I'm coming to the point, is a relationship between geography, the town and the countryside, producing a surplus from the countryside to create specialized economic life in the cities.

[13:51] And this is what we had, I would broadly argue, until the nineteen seventies. So diff of course, the big difference between agricultural, industrial, but still basically, a geographic civilization. And so I will argue with you today that this is no longer what we have. So think of it, you know, think of it that way. Think about yourself sitting in your seat or myself here.

[14:18] So I have a body in space. So, the geosphere, the world of matter, the biosphere, the world of life. I'm actually here with you right now, but I'm probably filmed, so I see myself over there. There's probably people listening in to us who are all over the world. So where are they? They are in the newest sphere. Right? So when you do a Zoom

[14:45] when you do a Zoom or whatever you wanna or some similar online meeting, whenever when you do open source, when you do collaborate on crypto or Ethereum, you are in another kind of geography, a non territorial geography. And this has never happened before. In other words, that we have,

[15:08] a physical world which still has physical rules. And at the same time, we develop a second world, the newest fear. The sphere of collaborating human minds. And so if we look at coordination mechanism, this is very, very important. So gifting and commoning, one. Civilization is markets and states. So either a state command,

[15:34] hierarchical command, planning, or market pricing signals through market pricing. Right? This is what civilization is. This is how we coordinate the movement of resources. This is not how we do it in crypto. There is, of course, some planning. There is a role for the market, but the main method of coordination in open source and crypto is something entirely different.

[16:01] It's called stigmergy, mutual signaling. And so what we see today is that we can produce things like Wikipedia, Linux, Arduino, Ethereum that are mainly based on coordinating labor and capital on a global scale through mutual signaling.

[16:26] So I think when we talk about transition, it's not just a transition hegemony. Let's say replacing The US with China as the hegemonic force in the world. This is not just what we're talking about. We're talking at a level of transition that is equivalent to the birth of civilization, which was the shift from gifting and commoning to markets and states.

[16:51] We are now shifting to a mode of coordination value that is based on stigmergy, peer to peer dynamics, and shared resources comments. So what's what's the force of Ethereum It's the capacity for I don't know how many people work on Ethereum today. 25,000,

[17:14] maybe a lot more. I'm not sure. Probably more because if we can have 25,000 people coming to ETH Denver and stuff. So that means that's probably only a portion. Right? So I don't know how many people work for Ethereum. I haven't looked it up. But think about it. So we are able to create a worldwide infrastructure through mutual signaling.

[17:38] So this is what cosmolococcus is about. It's about rethinking the relationship between our physicality, our physical world, and how we manage the physical world and how we manage that other world, that other type of territory. And so this is maybe important to understand. When you talk about planetarity, what do you mean? Do you just mean the extension of geography,

[18:02] which is still, you know, the physical plane being extended and unified through fast communication, or are you talking about another type of territory? So why does that matter? Why does cosmologicalism matter in that context? So the the simplest way to understand cosmologicalism is just the following, a very simple rule. If it's heavy,

[18:27] it's local. If it's light, it's global and shared. So it's about rethinking the the production of value and the coordination of economic and social activity, by thinking should we relocalize some things? Can we relocalize some things? Or should we do things online rather than in the physical world? Right? So the thing is, okay, if it's heavy, if it's material, it's local. If it's

[19:04] light, it's shared and global. So it's a combination of relocalized production. Think about distributed manufacturing manufacturing capacities that we now have and to combine it with global collaboration through protocols online. That's basically cosmolocalism. But think also what it could mean in terms of, global

[19:26] politics. So what is the struggle today? Why why is the world unstable? It's, basically, I would argue, a fight between two models right now. One is kind of the East Asian, East Eurasian model, which is state centric. Think about the China model and the Russian model.

[19:50] And lots of countries in the global South looking at that model because it seems to work quite well right now. And the other model, which is the western model, which is probably best expressed in the ideas of Davos, you know, a a global multi stakeholder, kind of governance system. Right? Public private collaboration. So those are two models for the physical world in some sense, in some basic sense.

[20:20] But I want to introduce another way of thinking about how to grow today. And, Benjamin Life of OpenCivics or Ethereum Localism wrote a really nice article about it. And so it it talks about regenerative accelerationism. Right? So Vitalik,

[20:43] who will speak I think at four, he he talks about, is it decentralized accelerationism? And it's kind of like a bit of a social democratic feel. If you compare it to the libertarian feel, of of of Bitcoin. But decentralized access accelerationism is yeah, in my view, doesn't go far enough. I'll put it that way. So, you know, it's just within a movement, there are different, positions.

[21:16] Regenerative acceleration is the following. So we make the difference between extraction and regeneration. So if you do agriculture, after twenty years, is your soil healthier or less healthy? If it's less healthy, you have been engaged in extractive modes of production. If you hold if your soil is healthier after twenty years, you've been engaged in regenerative,

[21:42] modes of production. And I would argue this is a choice that people now are making more and more. So the question then becomes, how do you grow? Right? Because most of the people who do regenerative production in our type of society are marginal, have to work very hard. There's little funding. So how do you grow? And think about extraordinary growth of

[22:08] Bitcoin, Ethereum, how they use these principles to basically, you know, get a worldwide presence in a very short time. So in terms of regenerative accelerationism, I would start thinking in terms of, can we conceive of a new form of territory? And, of course, the network state is that as well. Right? The network state.

[22:32] But historically, I would link the network state idea to what is called cameralism. So if you think if you know a bit of history, the Dutch Republic. So it's kind of a merchant republic. Right? You use crypto capital to purchase or negotiate a physical territory, and then you kind of come in from the top down

[22:55] to develop a free city special economic zone. So this is one way of looking at this is also a new form of developing territories. Right? Because you start from the digital and digital capital, and then you you try to intervene in the geography from that point of view. What I would call the archipelago

[23:18] of regenerative, projects is a slightly different vision because here it is like you have different localities doing different things, doing different regenerative activities. And now you're thinking, well, I can develop in two ways. One is locally, physically, by connecting to local public authorities at different levels. That would be the traditional way of thinking about it.

[23:46] But you can also try to think entirely differently is directly connecting yourself to this new type of territory. So I have some friends, two of them that were quite successful in the last few months. One is, the the traditional dream factory, which is like a permaculture community in Portugal. And they did a a crowdfunding,

[24:10] crowd lending, I think it was. So three, four, five years and three, four, 5% interest on that loan. And they got $1,500,000 in, like, two weeks, I think. Right? So this is this is different. Right? You you you are not appealing to, let's say, the capital that is expressive of the physical

[24:35] geography. You are appealing to capital directly, which is representative of that new territory. And so I think we need to systematize. And so if I look at Ethereum in that context, and I'm I'm I'm already wrapping up. I think I had fifteen minutes. So Ethereum is very much involved in that evolution.

[25:00] Right? So think about this. '93, the browser and the web. This is when we invent stigmergy. This is when the first time in history, we create this medium where people can globally coordinate their labor with outside of markets and command. They are doing it by believing in in joint projects and coalescing around those joint projects.

[25:27] And they create these massive infrastructures that we know today. So that's coordination of labor and and capital. I would say public public goods funding is also a very big invention because as you may know, it's called the collective action problem. So why do we have the state? Because

[25:51] if you only look at your private interest, nobody really wants to to pay for a road. Oh, I'm never using that road. I don't want to pay taxes for that road. I live in a good neighborhood. I don't want to pay taxes for the police. I have a private school. I don't want to pay taxes to have public schools. You know, very normal, human reactions.

[26:16] But, basically, this is a collective action problem. So we invent institutions that can do things that are good for everyone. And so I think public goods funding is extremely significant change. Right? What because what does it do? It's a non state actor, a global network, Ethereum, for example. Projects within Ethereum voluntarily tax themselves,

[26:44] send that money to Gitcoin, and Gitcoin funds collective action, collective infrastructure. So here we have a global network that is able to tax itself and create common infrastructure. So as you can see, Ethereum, you know, it's kind of, in at the heart of this change.

[27:06] It's it's not marginal player in this change towards Cosmo local infrastructures. But I think we should go further, and this will be my plea if you like or my argument. So we have to make a difference between material value, resources, and representation of that value, money.

[27:29] Right? I feel Ethereum has worked a lot on that representation level. But do we see Ethereum in the physical world, in physical communities producing physical things? And I think this is where you have to think really hard. As we go to a period of transition with wild swings,

[27:54] you may not survive with only representational money. You may want to think about as a as a larger community to link with the archipelago of regenerative villages that is emerging already. You know, not they don't use the words, but these communities are connecting. Anyway, so I maybe I'll stop with there. And, so cosmolocalism

[28:19] is really thinking about three levels. Localism is implied in the world, which is how can we create more value sovereignty, locally, around our regenerative engagements. Level two bioregionalism, how do we work in complementary ways with other people doing similar projects, but are also related to regeneration.

[28:45] And then cosmologicalism, how do we kid how do we create common protocols, of collaboration and access to capital at a planetary cosmological level? How can we have, you know, the 5,000,000,000,000 that is floating largely speculatively in the crypto world? How can we have some of that going to actual

[29:10] productive regenerative reformation of our productive system? And I think in that way, Ethereum becomes more real. So I call it crypto for real because if we don't touch that basic level of value creation and value distribution, we are kind of working in the theater,

[29:33] in the representational theater. So this is my plea. It's basically, for, you know, people like you who are sitting here and are engaged in I'm sure what you believe is, and I agree with that, is, you know, building a new world, an infrastructure for an emerging new civilization, to basically also think about the more

[29:59] fundamental, physical realities that we also depend on. Right? The higher we are in the level of abstraction in our work, the more we depend on all the people making that possible. Right? And so creating that loop. So I don't know if some people from India here are and maybe you find it offensive, but I'll say it anyway. So I think in terms of Brahmin workers,

[30:24] we need to create Brahmin workers. People who are at the same time thinking in terms of, you know, knowledge, spirituality, engagement with the world, and at the same time engage, with hacking physical reality as it were and working in the physical at the physical layer. Thank you for your attention. I hope that wasn't too boring,

[30:48] and I hope I'm not too much outside of my time limit. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle, for that very opening. Now let's moving forward. We will dive deeper into the themes with our first panel.

[31:11] This panel explores the idea of the not as a place but as a method. Over the past few years, pop up societies like ZuZulu have become living experiments, testing how human coordinate trust, governance, and the culture beyond purely digital systems. This panel asks, what do these experiments teach us about building future societies at a human scale?

[31:38] Now to wrap up our introduction, please welcome Jiang, founder of SocialLayer, building the infrastructure for social correlation Shaka, a key voice representing the Ethereum and Zuzalo communities Sun, cofounder of the MOO exploring new frontier in community and technology. Zeke,

[32:01] the core contributor of four seas, a driving force behind this summit. Now to lead this final discussion, I'll now hand it over to our moderator, Vivian, founder of the Taiwan based Cevatag Dao organization. Guys, let's welcome. Interesting. We're missing one person.

[32:27] Shaka? Oh, okay. So, hello. Hi, everyone. My name is Vivian. I'm from Taiwan. We have a fairly not very diverse group of people in our panel. And today, we're gonna talk about Zuzulu. So for those, who has no context about what Zuzaaloo is, it's has been

[32:52] one of the actually very important word in in this whole Ethereum ecosystem. Michelle talked about how Ethereum communities can actually do something in a physical world instead of just being super abstract in, like, in the sky following the wind. How can we actually make something that's real, that's connected

[33:16] to the ground, to the people, to the communities? And, I feel like it's actually very nice that we're starting with the Souzaloo, panel today to explore how can we actually do that. So to start with, we have four people, four panelists, one moderator, forty minutes, which means one person, eight minutes. And

[33:41] each, answer will need to will need to be very concise. Can we do it? Yes. Okay. Amazing. So first, I would like to introduce, not me, but I would like to invite all of them to introduce themselves. Just like a quick intro and how you are connected to the Zuzhou movement. Maybe let's start with Zhang. Hi. Can you hear me? Yeah. So I'm Zhang. I'm building SocialLayer,

[34:05] which is a committee coordination platform, for pop up cities and committees. So to because I'm building this, committee of software and building it in this pop up cities really mean I'm facing, the users of my application. And, also, I can collect a lot of feedbacks, And I can also, observe how people are using,

[34:31] these, these apps and the and and and the features in it. So in this way, I can really iterate on the application development, really fast and get a very, effective and useful feedbacks. Yeah. Thank you, John. What about Shaka?

[34:53] Hi. I'm Shaka. I don't hold a title. I just love stewarding and gardening the fertile soil of the infinite garden. Zuzalu is my home. I've been living in all the Zuzalu nodes permanently for the last two and a half years, just going from one to one and try and give my contributions to the community because it's home.

[35:17] Thank you, Shaka. Hey, guys. My name is Sun. Surprisingly, I actually never been to Sizalu, but I've been collecting piece and bits of the the whole story of Suzalu happened during those two months around the world with friends. We've been building pop up cities around the world, in Argentina, in Africa, in Japan, in many other cities and countries. And we also one of we are also one of the cofounding team of the of a one of the largest,

[35:45] pop up city and also build a community in Argentina, in Latin America called Crispiento. And, this year, we are heading to Shanghai bringing publicity experience, bringing this global diverse experience to, builders and founders in Mainland China to, one, opening new markets, opening new, ecosystems. Yep. Thank you. And then Zeke? Hello, everyone. I'm Zeke from Fosys.

[36:10] Fosys is a permanent base in of of Suzalu. It started from more than two years ago, and I'm very I was joined joined the the first Suzalu in Montenegro. That was a a excellent experience. Yeah. So

[36:34] we we stayed at HMI to try to connect more local culture, local people. So that's why we host the the East Chiang Mai. And the location, the hackathon and the summit is in CMU, Chiang Mai University. That that was, yeah, quite good. Okay.

[37:00] Amazing. Thank you. So you can see that within our panel, we actually have people engaging with the Suzulu movement in at different level. We have Zig who's working on the permanent node of Zuzulu, which means that they're committed to a long term building of the Zuzulu movement for more than, like, thirty years. Yes? Yes. Yes. And then with Sun, he has been connecting people across different culture,

[37:24] moving from Africa to South, Latin America to to Asia, basically across different continent and then trying to see the similarities and differences between different continents. We have have shaka, people flowing in all of these culture, connecting people, cultivating soil for everyone. And we have Jiang building the digital infrastructure

[37:49] for this whole movement. So it's actually a quite holistic panel. So maybe let's start with understanding exactly what people see as changing the society because we want to build new societies, and we don't just do that. Right? We do that because we observe something within the existing, society that doesn't really satisfy us. Can you share a little bit about

[38:13] why it's appealing for you to join Azululul movement? And with that, maybe how yeah. Like like, what comes to you when it when it, when you talk about, like, building new societies? What does that mean to you? Maybe we can start with Zig for that one. I'll be changing the the order.

[38:40] You mean the the Why is it appealing for you to build new societies? What do you observe in the old societies? You know, the Internet already happened, like, fifty years, and the the technology changes the site quite a lot. The information

[39:04] of the the speed of the information just for much faster and faster, And, we have, we had a blockchain technology, since more than, seventeen years ago. This technology really changed our society. And the the older system,

[39:27] the even democracy, we have different type of democracy system like America and, Switzerland. They have the different one. But, if we are we we we can find, this, democracy technology is too slow

[39:51] compared to the new technology. So the the governance of the whole world in the whole world is need to be changed. We need to find some new way to organize reorganize our, future society. That's that's, what's the Syrian community, Zuzalo community trying to figure out. And, also, some some other people, for example, like Balaji,

[40:18] he wrote the book, the Natamoka State. He imagined the the the the the future what it will be in his opinion. But we have different ideas to mainly, the the the the thinking is quite similar, but we have some details we don't don't disagree. So we want to

[40:42] do some experience to see how can we build our new society. We don't have a solution till now, because it's quite a new things. So, yeah, that's what we are. So because of the tech development, the society hasn't or our democratic system hasn't been able to catch on. Yeah. Yeah. The tech. And then what we're doing is also what Michelle mentioned, changing, like, the mode of coordination. What is the new mode of coordination that we're,

[41:13] looking into? What about you, Sun? For me, new and old society, I I don't know. It doesn't full make make full sense for me. I think it's more about, like, the world is changing on a, like, yearly or decade base. The past twenty or thirty years, it was America, like, basically, when it takes all, because of the military, because of the technology and everything.

[41:36] But for the past, I think, ten years, we can actually see there's a huge shift on on geopolitics side. One of the main things you can see is that technology, web web two or web two, whatever you call it, the new new Basically,

[42:01] any kind of your, digital service on a global scale, they can actually, block you on a globe on a global payment or global, search or even like, or even interfering with what kind of information you're absorbing. And that's actually much much more hurtful for the global community in general. And as you could and also people could see, like, in the past ten years,

[42:25] America has been changing a lot in many scales. Trump has won two elections for some reasons. And then, because of his personal interest and many stuff, you can actually see that, America is also shifting from back then, it was embracing the globalization now to much more, focused on its own development. It's not a problem. I mean, every country should, like, respect their own development.

[42:48] But then I think what's important now is that, every country, every nation have realizing that relying on one country to provide the technical development is very dangerous in many ways. So Europe EU recently announced that they're gonna develop their own Google, their own kind of additional service, not relying less on, on on America. What I'm saying is that technology is the new, nuclear weapon. So I think every country, every nation, every people have to learn how to build their own

[43:20] sovereignty tech, I said, I'll say. And then how can we support that is basically how can we support more startups happening around the world learning like, build on open source, protocols and and solve local problems, solve look and serve local people to narrow that, technological, gap between the West and the the rest of the world, I guess, the West and the East, but also with the developing regions. That's why we have been doing, public cities in developing regions

[43:49] in Africa, in Latin America to help them to see what is out there right now and also to bring, VCs or bring funding, bring media, bring all this kind of support from from the global, committee or the the the community sphere has the major say usually, to see how things could change. And and, also, I think fundamentally, it's

[44:12] a a a society requires empathy to differ to different culture, to different, communities, and that requires an empathy forms only by, one seeing the other. Like, you see each other. So that's why we do pop up cities to gather people, to meet each other, to to exchange, to, to put down everyone's differences and to actually see similarities

[44:34] and learn from each other. One of the reason we are doing in pop up city Mainland China is also because we want to we want to show people, like, what China and other culture is. So, yep, that's what I see. Thank you, San. You basically see the technological and cultural divide and try to just meet the gap and bridge Build a bridge. Yes. Okay. Thank you. What about you, Shaka? On the culture side

[45:04] of building bridges, I feel like you can see it actually up on this panel. Actually, the only strong developer is Zhang. So it's it's it's not like it's just like a tech thing or you have to be a developer. We each bring strong parts of our own passions and our abilities into this ecosystem that helps build those bridges. And

[45:28] I love the cultural aspects of the infinite garden and what Ethereum stands for with subtraction and thinking about more of a positive infinite sum mindset that we're building for something long term and bigger than just our short term or our personal gain. And so I, you know, I really

[45:53] believe that, like, every little pop up city is pushing initiative that will benefit future societies as we're having a future conference. So every every culture has a place. That's why it's important that we're not creating so much borders anymore, that we're actually building these bridges and allowing the network to be globally connected because you have so much beautiful cultures that can merge

[46:17] like the chains can merge. And then when we find those shared cultures, like the infinite garden or the positive sum, it really grows into this positive nature. And the idea of subtraction is actually, like, kind of, you know, removing yourself a little bit so that it the ecosystem can sustain and grow. And I think that, like, you know, Zeke, for example, does a a brilliant job, and the whole four c's does a really good job of subtracting themselves so that the culture of Four Seas can really grow naturally and let the community kind of really lead the way.

[46:50] Thank you, Shaka. I feel like I I hear a lot of similar things about pluralistic. How can how we can actually build a pluralistic cultures, that just that that we're not only serving one or two stakeholders, but it serves the communities. Zhang? So I'm engineer. And in my own experience, the

[47:14] in the the the and the movement brings together peoples from very different backgrounds, like researcher, developer, and, people doing governance or AI and crypto, and and also people are doing who are the social activist

[47:38] and and some very forward thinking people. And in in this community, you will really meet these these great minds and and in in it, you you can really enjoy and do some something new and create together. And this also makes the culture of a publicity called cross pollination

[48:04] where people can change exchange a lot of ideas and build new stuff. And you will really see the development of the frontier technology. So in in pop up cities, you can really be in the central of the

[48:29] of the network, but also in everywhere. Yeah. So I, I think in in this, pop up city, it accelerate the the development of of the society we we want to build. So now,

[48:52] I guess, Zhang, can you, like, further elaborate? Because the product you're building is called social layer. Obviously, it's like there's layer two, there's layer three, there there's layer different layers of technologies, but we also need the social layer. Can you explain what that means in the pop up cities or Zuzulu movement, context? Yeah.

[49:15] So for, so the name of social layer get inspired by the Ethereum architecture. And so they are they are the layer one, blockchain, which provide a fundamental consensus for the network while the layer two blockchain, is built on the layer ones, but provide a faster,

[49:38] local and more customized, disability ledgers. And while we are thinking, all these layer one and layer two are the tech layer of the community, but we are we also need to build applications on top of this on top of this infrastructure.

[50:02] But what really matters are building the social layer, which is the community, and the culture on on this stuff. So and and the but but SocialNet as the name is just too long, so we we call ourselves SOLA, s o for social, and LA For Layer.

[50:26] So so the so so that's that's why we are also Solar Day, which is kind of a solar punk meme. So what makes social layer work important for for this pop up city is that SocialLayer provide the management platform and coordination for for these committees.

[50:51] But, also, we encourage people to publish their own events, book the venues. And in in this way, we are creating a more unconferences structure for these events and committees so that people can can self organize instead of relying on the host to manage the the schedule

[51:19] and the committee. This also is similar to the, stigmatize idea, yeah, Michelle just mentioned. Thank you, John. So it feels like, what social layer to the Souza Lou movement is what Ethereum

[51:41] to, like, the broader ecosystem. So it's something that people can build on top of, something that help people coordinate in a fundamental, level. Is that correct? Yeah. Thank you. With that, we we talked a lot about culture and how culture has been, like, the cornerstone almost of this movement. But culture is not something that's,

[52:05] that you can actually just tell people. This is our culture. It's something that's more emergent, Shaka. Being in so many different pop up cities, residencies, different movement that like, different different locations of the Souza Lou movement. Have you noticed, like, any patterns of these human behaviors, across

[52:28] actually different pop ups that you find interesting? That is the cornerstone. That is the culture of Souza Lou. You know, I think part part of the beauty of open source culture and open source communities, open source technology is the shared learning and the knowledge built on top of knowledge. So all these different

[52:55] zoo activations all around the world have all been great experiments that have all generated lots of good and even some bad data. So I actually think, like, the strongest cultural point that kinda binds us and is pushing us forward is that openness and that shared aspect that you kinda see, like, things that work tend to work, and we all tend to do it. Like, for instance, like, an ice bath. Like, we all like an ice bath. So, like, every pop up city likes to have a longevity week that we kinda focus on eating healthy. And

[53:27] I think vibe coding is a huge kinda cultural thing now too that, like, Kat and well, who helps with Zhang on social. I was doing some great Kat GPT workshops all throughout this. So, like and and everyone's, like, helping each other out. Right? Because of that beauty of social layer being permissionless, anyone can kinda, like, hop on social layer and then, like, share what they're learning or or talking about. So many people are just, like, giving great workshops at

[53:54] four c's. And every single pop up city, I've seen that almost, like, all of them use technology like SocialLair so that people can, yeah, like, share that knowledge and share that culture. And something I like to share is music, so I can even just go in there and book jam sessions. And, you know, it's it's fun to just share with each other. So I guess the op the the idea of open source that's embedded in Ethereum is also a part of the whole broader

[54:21] ZOOZulu movement that's been shaping different small societies around. So following that cultural question, this one is to both Yu Sun and Zik. You the the two of you has been building very different not very different, but, like, the format is different kind of society. One permanent, one has been, like, hopping around and also exploring to be permanent.

[54:46] With these communities, you you both have a core team. Like Sun, you have a core team. Zig, there's also a core team at four c's. How do you how do you manage this balance between the core team leading the direction and then, letting the community people actually emerge their own culture? Like, this balance between top down and bottom up culture building. How do you find the balance in that?

[55:18] Yeah. So, basically, our core team is basically the ones who build the stage. And, for example, getting the funding from different potential sponsors, getting funding from different, sources to make this entire thing happen, rent everything, the venues, the space, get all the the details ready. And then, basically, I was saying, provide a stage. And the community is basically the people who are on the stage,

[55:43] do like, doing all kind of events, show or talks or anything else you wanna you wanna create. So people have been doing midnight hangouts in random places and, also visiting, visiting, like, important, important people and all kinds of stuff. So all hosted by local communities by themselves and also friends around the world. So yeah. So, basically, you create the infrastructure, the frame, the framework so that people can the environments so that people can be themselves in it. What about music?

[56:23] For this is a community and it's physical nodes. So it means the we have to have a a big cost for the physical spaces. So at the beginning, we just rent a a venue in in Hong Kong. That time, we just did a a core team just to or or all of us, we are the the the the

[56:50] community member. And then we realized that costs for the physical thing is really high. So and it so we want to figure out how to make the community sustainable. So we spread the two part. One is community. One is the business part. Business business part will manage the the physical spaces

[57:15] to business perspective, make it sustainable. And the community is still doing the research to connect connection with with other communities. And, like like, around one year ago, we found the only community and the business part is not enough because

[57:37] we are physical person, physical people. So we have we have our own life. So and we are creating the future society, future life. So and, roughly, we think if you are happy in your life, that can be the should be the very important part of the future life.

[58:03] So we add one more part. We call the lifestyle. So lifestyle means, like, we do a lot of Take take care more about the mental health, also physical body health to, to help, not only the

[58:28] the whole community to have the good good feeling, good healthy. Yeah. This so it's step by step. We try to figure out how to organize our own community and all around the the the the movement. So four c has also been, like, slowly developing their own like, slowly discovering

[58:51] what is the way that would work. And now the more top down one is actually the business side, and the other side remains bottom up. So you separate into completely different entities to be in charge of a different side of the the culture building. Yes. Yes. Okay. Amazing. So we talked a little bit about money. Like, you say that having a physical space is very, very, very costly. And

[59:15] okay. We have five minutes left. And it's very costly actually to run pop up cities and to just be a part of the movement. How how do all of you approach, sustainability within the within the the the pop ups within the SUSO movement? Maybe, Jang, do you wanna start with that? You mean the sustainability of the whole Financial sustainability.

[59:41] Yeah. Money. I think it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. From all over the world, I don't see many true committees made a lot of money, but there are some but but I find there are some very interesting community, and one of them is called. It's a community of making money. Oh. So so they are sharing.

[01:00:08] So so it's a com it's a online and of and local hybrid community with 70,000 members where each of them pay 3,000 RMB per year. Oh. So this is a committee that really make money and because they are sharing

[01:00:31] the knowledge of how to how to make money. Oh, yeah. Oh, this is not but this is not Zoho because Zoho and the public cities, are creating a a environment for people to build the the lifestyle and accelerate the technology. And as far as I can, many of the pop up cities, they are for those who who is

[01:00:57] more sustainable, they are doing some a sort of program to incubate new, star projects. And, in this way, they are joining a bigger, ecosystem to support the community. Thank you. So so basically within the SUSO movement, people are still exploring this third way between

[01:01:20] market and state. What about you, Shaka? I I feel like you have a actually very interesting experience with, like, actually practicing reciprocity. Do you wanna share a little bit about that? I like to base, my sustainability off of a philosophy that's kind of more spiritual. I I like to call it the circularity, and I really believe that, like, the more I give in this world, the more I contribute,

[01:01:44] eventually it kinda comes back to my point of receiving is from the universe, that it gives me so much more momentum that I can keep giving a bigger gift. It started as a little music corner at hackathons, and now there's a music stage at DevCon as a gift. So the more I keep giving the gift, I've seen that you receive an opportunity to keep giving a bigger gift. So something very uniquely about how I had actually lived in every single pop up city is I don't charge.

[01:02:11] I don't give contracts. I receive smart contracts, but I don't say you have to pay me x amount in order for me to go contribute to your pop up city. I follow my heart, and I follow where the wind guides me, and I tell pop up cities and permanent pop up cities, I tell I messaged Zeke and said, hey. I'm coming. I wanna come help. I wanna come live there. I wanna spend Christmas and New Year's with you. Did I say it's gonna cost this much money to record this and this and that? No. I didn't I don't charge anyone. I give it as a gift, and now it's been four years that I've sustainably been able to travel the world as a guest. People invite me and they host me, and I'm able to keep giving my gift because I believe in the circularity that I I think if everyone in this world lived with this way, which on chain, maybe we could figure out a way to have a giving economy,

[01:02:59] every every country, every economy, every person would receive because everyone would be giving. I believe that we can achieve achieve this in the future societies where we focus on giving, not charging and transacting, but actually contributing in and giving. So that's how I'd say sustainable. Inspiring. Inspiring. What about you, Sun? Because you're running, like, a whole community. That's, like, a different level of sustainability.

[01:03:23] Yes. So, yeah, like, our we spend much more on different stuffs. So, we usually raise sponsorship. We get grants from different partners and sponsors. And I think, but I I think we share the same, ideas that we provide value. Every event we're doing around the world, we do for not only for the builders, but also for, like, a local social purpose. Wherever we have been to, we have always left a lasting effect. For example, in Africa now, they have a local community still running and still, doing events and long term residencies for builders.

[01:03:55] And whenever we need sponsorship, like, David themselves will be introducing their sponsors, their partners to us, and open source foundations or, like, global foundations to support African builders. And they've been introducing them to us to help us to build our next event and our next project. And, also, in Crispiento in Argentina, we also we still probably the largest builder community in in Latin America. So we have a lot of support from, Argentinian friends,

[01:04:22] providing support sponsor connections. Our past sponsors also come back to us wanting to help us to grow and connect and build a Chinese version of Chris Miento or maybe other versions of Chris Miento around the world. So all these and also, like, showing the the past work we have done, to new partners that definitely adds a lot of, credibility as well. For example, some governments give us grants to build what we've been building around the world, and all these makes our live project and everything easier, the moment easier and more sustainable.

[01:04:53] Thank you, Sun. And what about you, Seik? So Sun, what they do is, like, keep creating value so that people come back. What about four c's? Four c's, there are two sides. Right? Or one side is the we are the society experience. We try to find the idealism

[01:05:16] part. And we also have our physical the the physical part sell the, you know, society experience cost we we are still,

[01:05:39] trying to find out how to make the whole things, sustainable, but, we real So we're actually at time.

[01:06:12] So we have a lot of topics that we weren't able to talk about today, but these are the people that you can talk to regarding, building new societies, pop ups, and Souzaloo. Do you have one final message to our audience today? Maybe whoever? It it's the values that drive the value. Like, these guys offer great value to the world.

[01:06:36] Why? Because we're inspired by beautiful values that we learned from cypherpunk communities that we believe in, self sovereignty and immutability that we you know? So it's actually the values that drive the value that we offer. Thank you, Shaka. Value drives value. Oh, a message from me. I'll probably, like, recommend everyone to try to build their own community and also build their own,

[01:07:01] experience, residencies, all kinds of stuff. Let us know if you guys need any help. I'm pretty sure people on the stage, everyone would love to help and and try explore different stuff. I focus on startup. People can focus on biotech. People can focus on whatever. I think the most important thing is don't, don't let experiments stop. Yeah. John? Yeah. For me, I think the the the humanity is now facing off a new challenges.

[01:07:29] We're now in in the turning point of of the destiny of of our of of our, species in the, in in arrival of AI. Yeah. So we need to learn about how to how to live in the future. It will be very different. And so in the pop up city, we we just meet the people that can imagine the future.

[01:07:56] So inviting people to imagine futures together. I wanna use a Chinese word. You know, how to say? It means we look the future, but we also doing things very hard step by step, create our future. Yes. Be visionary,

[01:08:21] but stay grounded. What's that one more time? What's the word? Thank you. She's our first panel. I got you. Thank you. Thank you so much for our panelist, and thank you, Vivian.

[01:08:46] Now let's move to next panel. This panel explores what it really means to live permissionlessly in 2026, privacy, self custody, autonomy, not just as technologies, but just as social norms. Please welcome our moderator, Panjie Xiong, founder of Chenfeeds, and we are also joined by the incredible group of researchers and technical pioneers,

[01:09:12] Sen Chu, founder of ZKP to b, pioneering trustless peer to peer field on ramps. Vogue, senior researchers at MIP and SRS, focused on the deep mechanics of decentralized systems. Neil Nora, practical testing engineer at the Ethereum Foundation,

[01:09:35] ensuring the security and resilience of the network. Zhou Qi, founder of Ethereum Storage, a leader in decentralized storage solutions for the Ethereum ecosystem. Please join me in welcoming them to the stage. Welcome. Hello. Welcome.

[01:10:11] I'm Pan, the moderator of this panel. The panel is called Cyberpunk as a survival skill and what it takes to live permissionlessly. And you all can see the slogan here everywhere, make Ethereum Cyberpunk again. And, you know, Cyberpunk, Bitcoin, or Ethereum, or the crypto space are originated

[01:10:35] from the cyberpunk movement. But we some people are mixed up with cyberpunk. So I like to everyone to introduce yourself, how you connect to the cyberpunk, and how you define cyberpunk, and and you can give us one example or one your practice. Yeah. Okay. I think we can start with Vox.

[01:10:58] Hi. Yeah. So, I mean, cyberbang for me? Yeah. I mean, it it's it's it's very cyberbang. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think for me, it was like being punk. Right? It's about being able to, like, really stand on your own against the authority and have the tools and have this mindset of,

[01:11:21] like, really a technology. I think it would be kind of like a technology technology and power bank that would be Cypherbank for me. And then yeah. I mean so I think I'm also about to do a bit of, like, what what I what I do in terms of, like, cyberpunk. Right? So, yeah, I mean, for me, normally, I'm not I'm I'm I'm I'm I mean, I broke out of my manding to daily manding to to come to come just to come, yeah, to come and speak with you all here. Because I usually

[01:11:54] deal with the with with what's called kind of like a hostile environments and how activists live in these hostile environment because I'm I'm essentially a trainer. So the things that are about Cypherbang for me is for me, I do encryption on very like like, on basically, whatever I can encrypt, I try to encrypt because, like, there is a that there is also a risk. There is also I saw very firsthand

[01:12:21] kind of like a like a how a government and how institution they can turn on you. They can take your asset, and they can I mean, they got they got all the resources and all the people? We are we are we are not very much. So so yeah. Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Sachin, cofounder of ZKB2P.

[01:12:46] For those who are not aware, ZKB2P is like Binance b two p, but it's on chain. So you do not have to rely on a centralized intermediary like Binance for facilitating, a p two p transaction, specifically a p two p on off ramp, which is conversion of fiat to crypto. Yeah. We are on chain. We are permissionless, and we have all the properties of DeFi.

[01:13:10] We are the DeFi equivalent of of a CeFi technology like Binance b two b. On Cypherpunk, I guess, like, I will quote the source itself. Eric Hughes wrote the Cypherpunk manifesto. And in that, I think one line that was really, stood out to me is that privacy like, privacy is to not

[01:13:33] privacy is not secrecy. It is to selectively reveal something that you want to reveal to the world and keep the rest, private. I think I like, for the past two years, I've been working on this technology called zero knowledge proofs and that is the exact physical, I guess, or mathematical embodiment of that specific line because zero knowledge proves basically basically allows you to selectively disclose

[01:13:59] certain properties about a data. And, yeah, I think, that is like, coding the source material itself. ZK is the most, Cypherpunk technology there is, and whatever we can build using ZK will inherit, the Cypherpunk properties. Thank you, Sachin. I'm Leo Lara. I'm engineer at the Thirium Foundation. I think for me, like, the way to to say quickly, you know, like, Cyberpunk is about digital self sovereignty

[01:14:30] in a time that everything is is digital. I would like to kind of remark that it's not just, like, privacy and this ownership too. And they they are very connected, and those are very important things, about the the cyberpunk movement. That's what it means, digital civil self sovereignty. You need,

[01:14:53] privacy, you need secrecy, and you need ownership. And with respect, like, the thing the, Pan asked us, like, to give examples, one thing that I use is a Railgun. There is a tool. It's a network on top of Ethereum that give you privacy of top of Ethereum. So for example, if you are, getting paid in Ethereum, you don't want the

[01:15:19] people paying you to know what you're spending it, so you can use Railgun to kind of create privacy and separate, like, where you are getting paid to where you are spending. And, also, it's it's more advanced at that because you can do DeFi in a privacy using zero knowledge proofs inside Railgun. So I recommend everyone to to test this project

[01:15:41] to try it. Yeah. Hi, everybody. My name is Chi. I'm the founder of s s search. Have been working in a Ethereum infrastructure study for about years before I was a software engineer at Facebook, Google, those big companies, kind of like our enemies in cyberpunk cyberpunks. So my personal experience, especially in these big companies and now on my own company, and also have, living in different countries like China, US, and also a couple of different places like Chiang Mai,

[01:16:15] give me a really, really different views of of what the, world will be. And then also, I believe Cyberpunk is a way to help me to better understand what the world is. First, privacy. So, I work with a couple of the, US governments and can't believe they have so much knowledge of what the our information. For example, our transactions,

[01:16:43] our especially, you know, bank accounts. Basically, they can do whatever they want. They can just scan all the information and then try to see how much, what you have done and and what they can get from all this information. So and this is something I feel that a lot of people are not realized, and they just silently follow those, rules and they have no idea to just give up their rights,

[01:17:10] in common practice for a lot of people. And that's a great value that Cyberpunk gives me to me that, hey, you have to understand first, this you your rights. And second, now you have you need to figure out a way to protect all this. And second thing is that Cyberpunk supports called minimum trust or verify. But this is to my surprise that a lot of people, according to my observations,

[01:17:35] just relied on secondhand information and then make big decisions. Take an example of recent popular topics in US about law a, about the situation in the in The US, or something happened in China. I'm glad that I have a global view, a better view from both side, but a lot of people just, just following those rumors or not

[01:18:01] to visit these places to, go through this experience by themselves and verify so that don't they don't they're not being fooled by those misinformation. So I think those are really, really good best practice that Cyberpunk taught me, and definitely, I will use it for the rest of my life. Thanks for sharing. From I think Leo just mentioned

[01:18:25] Railgun for myself. I also tried the the Tenado cache at the early stage. But I think it's also very hard for normal person to understand why several pawn, matters. So I like everyone to try to why should normal people care about Cyberpunk and what real world harm happens when the privacy

[01:18:51] or self custody are not available by default and who gets hurt first? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as Xiaohu mentioned, I mean, we got we had, we had a we had a 2019 and 2020. I mean, we all passed that. Right? And we saw what happened

[01:19:16] when they when they actually tried to try to control our rights because as the kind of, like, really I mean, when we look at the whole I mean, even Internet. Right? The Internet was never designed to be used by this many people. I mean, it was it was designed to be to to be just a just a wide area network. Right? But then we got, like, billions of people on it. We got all of these,

[01:19:43] entities. Like, for example, you got entities for your connection. You got entities for your DNS. You got, like, every single I mean, all of these entities, they they're extremely powerful, and they're working on they're working on things we are not even able to, like, really think about. Like, they're processing terabytes of data and everything.

[01:20:06] And then what we really kind of saw back in back in this COVID period and then me me from being from Myanmar, what I saw was I saw a coup. So what happened was that these usually, what happened is your identity. You got a really I mean I mean, it's really shocking how your activities online and how you how your activities on the transactions

[01:20:32] reveals who you are to these institution. It's kind of like a it's kind of like they're all connecting the dot. For example, like, if you are I mean, if you are doing something like I mean, something really not desirable from the government side. Right? What happened is that they can just they can just I mean, the bank is your bank address, it's tied to your it's tied to your mobile phone. And the mobile phone is mobile phone knows where you are at this moment, like, in even in this area right now. And then so what happened is that what what happened in Myanmar was that people

[01:21:07] got, like, even kind of, like, really arrested. Like, people, like like, they the soldier, they would come knocking on the door for something like for a something like a transaction or something that was like a that that you spoke over the phone. So yeah. So for me, it was kind of like, it's really kind of, like, shocking when I actually came here because, like, I realized

[01:21:30] how interconnected everything is in even in Thailand. Like, it's I mean, it's a it's a very it's a rapidly developing country. But then what I what we I also saw was that there was this rise of cybercrime. Right? There was this rise of cybercrime, and then in response to it, we also have a lot of this cyberpolicing

[01:21:54] going around. For example, like like, back back even, like, even, like, for example, like, if you wanna buy a game on Steam right now, you gotta call the bank as if they're the parents. Like, hey. I'm a buy a big game. Yeah. It's me. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's getting pretty, like like I mean, all in the name of protection or in the name of security. I mean, just as we have this waves of rise of cybercrime,

[01:22:20] we have this this takes from the police, from the governments to have more control over what we do on the Internet. And I think the break I mean, for for me, I mean, people I mean, peep I mean, the breaking point is already it was already there, and it was already passed. But then I really don't think people have any, like, real real alternative

[01:22:44] to to the system. So yeah. I think, hopefully, we do have alternatives. On the topic of, like, why should normal people care? I think in crypto, we have this culture of like, because everything was born from Bitcoin, we have the in the base layer, we have said that we we need some cypherpunk principles, and we have a lot of cypherbunks in the community which continuously educate us about,

[01:23:15] why these things matter. But, like, outside the crypto space, there are very I believe there are very few people who understand why these things or why these properties are required. One thing that does help recently is the rise of AI. I think as AI becomes more prominent, as people try to use or, like, interact with AI systems more, they understand the fact that once you have enough data, you can basically do any you can train AGI using it, but also you can then use the AI to then basically do mass surveillance and do a lot of, bad things with the AI system. So that is kind of helping push for,

[01:23:56] I guess, the narrative that we need to keep our data safe. Companies are being bit more, I guess, they're trying to not reveal everything about themselves to OpenAI and not use OpenAI systems directly. I think one one example specifically in crypto that is, I guess, that happened recently was Coinbase, for example,

[01:24:19] leaked, 1% of their users' data when a data breach happened, and that led to a lot of, I guess, attacks. There were some attacks in Paris because all your crypto history, your financial history, your address, your phone number, your name, everything is online, then that means you're very attackable. And as these news surface, in the crypto industry as well as outside the crypto industry, people are becoming more aware that I need to be I need to protect my data and not

[01:24:50] give my entire financial history to every intermediary that I interact with. So I hopefully, it's headed in the right direction. But, yeah, there is a lot of work to be done. Thank you. So one of the things that decided make me decide to switch to Ethereum, was like I was reading in Reddit, like, terror stories of people getting

[01:25:17] blocked out by by certain corporations that owns our emails from out their email accounts. You know? Like the like someone get hacked and their email is used for something else and then they completely get blocked and they lose access to their email. And that's a terrifying story because, like, so much stuff depends on our email. Like, so much stuff of our life is connected to our email.

[01:25:43] So that's one of the things that made me realize why the centralization was important and actual ownership of our digital stuff was important. That's this kind of, like, stories that made me start to worry. And and then I think there was a very good point about the the the the the corporation because some people can say, well, but I'm not doing anything

[01:26:09] illegal. I don't need to hide from the government, blah blah blah. But it's like these corporations, get hacked, that you're giving the information. Even the government get hacked, and then you're a victim. Okay? So I think these are the reasons that we can put in front of of of people to understanding the importance of this even if they are not, like, tech people.

[01:26:36] Yeah. For me, I actually read the cyber fund manifesto this morning. And one thing I feel actually, the full article is focused on privacy. But one thing about reasoning why privacy important is the is the how the big organizations like governments and also big companies, they have they call facelessly using their power to

[01:27:01] to just take advantage of you. And I think this is something. Before I I joined crypto web three, I never realized that in, like, you know, those when I was a software engineer at at Meta, I I never realized that actually how deep, how systematic our rights are being potentially infringed by those centralized systems. Take a very simple example of currency.

[01:27:30] When I after I enter in in this web three, I take a systematic way to study the history of currency and can't believe how many times when the country faces difficulties, they just seize your properties and transfer this to their power. For example, take an example as gold or as a big example.

[01:27:55] Right? In the history when the the second war starts and US actually at the time says personally owned the gold is illegal. They can use all kinds of the explanations to basically take advantages of you. And so now that's why I stay in this web three ecosystems. Then now we found there's a not another way to help others to counter those big organizations,

[01:28:23] like Bitcoin, if there and they are much easier to be verified, they are much easier to transfer, to to take over. That definitely did have some new pricing that happening in this, system. But I believe our tech with all this techno knowledge at the once months, we can solve all those problem with, like, smart contract, multi sick wallets, all kinds types of things.

[01:28:47] And and this is something that actually teach me like, taught me, like, if I do not have the close look on how how the Cyberpunk is. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. You know, even if the protocol is permissionless, like, Ethereum or other VPN or other things you can use. But real life has has gatekeepers

[01:29:12] or permission point here. So in your context, what's the biggest gatekeeper or choke point that can still block people? And how do you work around it? Can I can I yeah? I found this question, very, very, very interesting. No? Like, I I think we cannot have failed. I hope we recover, but we cannot have failed

[01:29:36] in a in a very perverse way. You know? Like like, going back to the email example, all these corporations that have our emails are using open source to run these emails infrastructure. Yeah. They are all using Linux. They are all using open source email transfer agents. And still,

[01:30:00] it's so difficult to self host email. It's such a hassle. It's such a work that so few people are self hosting email. No? So we kind of put there all the technologically fundamentals to make possible to to be completely self soft sovereign and I think they are there. They can be improved there there, but they are too difficult for people to use. And, like, if you want to be like a extreme cyberpunk,

[01:30:28] like, can have Linux in your laptop. You can have HarmonyOS, but you need to find, like, a laptop that will will will Linux, that everything will will. You need to buy a a phone that works with HarmonyOS, etcetera, etcetera. So there is, like, there is a lot of, problem for like, it's not it's not usable. It's not it's not easy for it's easy even for people technically,

[01:30:56] with a lot of technical knowledge. It's it's a lot of work that they need to spend time managing all these things. No? And AI, like like, is is is is making it more difficult because, like, all these inference, no, running even if you have open source model, like, to run a big model, you need really big machines that are not affordable for more people. So and and you are going to be less competitive if you cannot use the the the big models.

[01:31:25] So we are getting to another point of of of of centralization that even, like, all the technology fundamentally is there. All these open source models, there is, like, the the the easier pass, the effortless pass is to use this open source technologies through centralized corporations. So, my idea is, like, we need to kind of find a way to self organize,

[01:31:53] to use Ethereum to coordinate and self organize and to be able to compete with these corporations to provide, decentralized solutions that are easy for people to use. There are like as easy. There are, like, just, like, register low in click, and then you are there. Otherwise, we cannot have a fail in a very perverse way because we are giving them the tools to to centralize more. Yeah. This mhmm. So email is good example.

[01:32:21] Yeah. How's everyone else? Think I really agree with Leo because, like, yeah, I mean, I I really recall this phase called, like it's it was it was by Bruce Schneider. He's like, you know I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, what he said was like, yeah, I mean, we cannot secure our data anymore because many of our data is no longer in our hand. I mean, we can only do so much and but then I mean I mean, I would say the biggest chokehold would be the would be the governments because it it I it all comes down to our kind of, like like, to keep yourself

[01:33:00] secure. I mean, even, like, when it comes to even stuff like like traditional banking systems. Right? The things that that is tied to you, like like, for exam number phone numbers, like and and your faces, your everything that is identifiable about you, they use it to verify you. So so means to say, you can't actually kind of like, hey. I'm going cyberpunk and throw this shit away. You cannot you cannot log out of this shit. Right? So I think, like, I think, like, when it comes to, like, really, really this,

[01:33:30] so yeah. I mean, like, there are, like, a lot of parts we have to take care of, and it's not just about setup. It's about a it's about a lifestyle. It's about living privately, and it's not, I mean, it's it's not an easy job. It's it's a it's an it's not an affordable job either. So what is the app so yeah. I mean, so I set my eye on this kind of like, so there are, like, a lot of initiatives as well on around identity.

[01:33:56] Identity in blockchain identity because, like, as you said, privacy is, privacy is, privacy is something you gotta control in a fine tuned level. You want something for people to see. You don't need for some things. You have control over. You you're not gonna show that to to anyone. And I think I see that in in really kind of like yeah. I mean, these, these blockchain based identity initiative,

[01:34:22] I think that they're a very interesting concept as well. And then I think it will also kind of like I mean, even with the even with web three and blockchain technology, right, we still have KYC. I mean, we have to be for for all six. Right? But then I think these KYC challenge, I mean, the digital identity stuff, they can actually kind of help circumvent this in a in a in a in a in a good way as well.

[01:34:52] Yeah. I guess to add on to what Leo said before, like, yes, Ethereum is permissionless. Yes. It senses the precision, but there are as as a technological stack, there are five other, I guess, layers in the stack that you have to go through before you can access Ethereum itself. You have to have Internet. You have to have a device, operating system. You have to have an app on the operating system, and then you have to then KYC into,

[01:35:20] if if it is like a non custodial wallet, then you don't have to do KYC. But if it is a centralized exchange, then you have to KYC. And all of these stacks above Ethereum itself form the choke point, like, you might be in a country where the app store does not support that particular wallet, so that is your choke point. You might be in a country where the exchange doesn't support the like, people from that geography, so that is your choke point. I think one way to, like, solve those choke points is, like, to switch slowly to more open

[01:35:53] ID protocols. So instead of using the phone, you have to use the web, which mean giving up a bit of convenience, but at least, the web is an open platform ex like Chrome extensions are more open compared to, Apple apps. Also, like one more other thing that I need to, I guess, highlight is that if those choke points exist, as long as there is an opportunity to to exit,

[01:36:17] you should be fine. Like as long as you can exit from one system and enter another more permissionless system, I think, yeah, that's that's very needed. And that's where, like, ZK TLS and other technologies that I mostly work on, like ZK DIDs, these systems basically allow you to, like, break those walled gardens and export your data without having to ask permission from the,

[01:36:41] from the centralized providers. You can just very similar to how you can escape from an l two, Ethereum l two to an Ethereum l one, ZK TLS allows you to escape and take all your data with authenticity and privacy and export it to, like, a more permissionless system like Ethereum. Yeah. Yeah. For my personal, understanding the biggest gatekeeper actually

[01:37:06] perhaps different answers myself. So first, I'm lazy. I'm a human. I'm lazy. Second, I want to enjoy my life and I don't want to learn those things that burn my brain. But reality is that if you are lazy, if you are not would like just enjoy your life, then you are actually blocking yourself. For example, if I know the importance of privacy or importance cryptocurrency,

[01:37:32] then I have to practice by myself to understand what happens here. If I want to contribute a firm, then I I should join the ACD, attend the devcom, come to Eastern Chiang Mai, discuss with different people, and grab the first hand information, verify by self. Actually, I was surprised when I revisit my last eight years experience. I was surprised that

[01:37:58] a lot of gatekeeper is people are just blocked by themselves either by fear or lazy. And but if you just take a little bit courage, a little bit cost, because I'm buying a ticket to come here or find the best person in the experts in different, like, community, discuss with them in a good faith and have contribute, take your time to contribute.

[01:38:22] And you'll find there's a lot of things that just can immediate disappear. And I think this is something that's really, really important to me. And because I can solve all the things, I can solve privacy problem, I can solve the, for example, the misinformation problem. I can know a lot of people and then reaching a much much a better consensus

[01:38:46] to know understand how the world operates and just just take action. Yeah. Very good point. And I think time's close, but we have one last quest one last topic. If you could change just one common default, one setting or normal habit, most people follow to have living permissionlessly

[01:39:08] easier and safer, what would it be, and why would it change so much? Yep. Yeah. Maybe I could go first. I think financial privacy is the most important privacy that you need to optimize for. Everything stems from financial privacy. As long as you can move value and move your life to somewhere else, you you are safe.

[01:39:34] And, I guess one like, you just use ZK p two p. We are a peer to peer privacy preserving on off ramp. If you want to you if you want to go to Zcash, go via ZK p two p, and, you you keep your privacy from the first mile all the way up to Zcash. Nobody would know that you are going to Zcash. Don't use centralized exchanges, basically. K. Anyone want to share?

[01:40:00] One thing when you were talking about the the the the compromise, I thought more about the other side. Like, what I'm kind of willing to compromise and and something that I don't know how we can mix well with the safe Cyberpunk's reputation. No? Like, how you you create a career, you do certain things, you want, people to that you you have done these things,

[01:40:25] and that's very kind of difficult to combine with privacy. You know? And I saw, like like, many of the people I work with, they have, like like, all the accounts in all the platform, completely different names, completely different photos. And I thought they do they do it for privacy, but it makes, like like, so much difficult to know. Like, sometimes you think they are two different people

[01:40:49] in GitHub or in Discord. You know? But, no, they are the same people. So so how we yeah. For me, it's difficult, like, kind of, like, how we can have reputation and all that is, like, CKP things for posting, like like but but but, yes, as a general level, no, how come have we our public identities, our reputation at the same time privacy? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think I think it's a it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty hard question. Right?

[01:41:22] Because yeah. I think for me I mean, I think, I think we're we're at a I I think we all agree that we're at a interesting times. Right? I mean but then, but then I'm not really seeing, like, if I were to identify one particular change, I I I really can't see it because, like, there is there are, like, there are, like, a lot of a lot of things happening and a lot of

[01:41:46] at, like, even with the I mean I mean, let's let's see with the let's see with the rise of authoritarianism, we see that on the on the even on the Internet, like, even even countries like like, worse than a lying country, they're they're they're going they're going full full authoritarianism mode on on so on on on the Internet. And that's the same as the that's the same as the social media. That's the same as the bank. So I'm not even sure. Like, I don't think the I don't think the bad stuff they're they have run their course. Like but then their but the thing is we may may I mean, as is the usual, we will I think we may have the we may have the next best thing. So yeah. I mean but only

[01:42:30] one thing to change? I I really can't identify it right now. Yeah. For me, so if something change, comma, is probably to understand yourself and understand what the humanities. And according to that, understand why we need privacy, why we want to, minimize the power, why we want to, verify by ourselves.

[01:42:56] And otherwise, like, for example, we know every the human is greedy. The power will will be based on top of that, but power will just grow without if we we we do not put limits on our corresponding competitors. And that's why we need to privacy because this is the two that be able to come back with all these, centralized powers. And because the we cannot trust

[01:43:20] that they are in good faith. And and we have to verify, for example, all those governments, they are doing good things or not. Because, for example, for this time, we are quite surprised these Epistem files. I do check some of the files and also here with files. And you can imagine there's a lot of a lot of interesting, like, facts that are flying for those,

[01:43:44] kind of elite peoples. And we don't verify by myself. I cannot, like, trust, like, why we are trust these people then they can do good things. So so my general practice is face myself and face our weakness, and then we are able to how to counter them. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Thanks to our panelists for sharing discussion, and thank you for your time. And

[01:44:10] that's it for our cyberpunk cyberpunk cyberpunk, panel. Yeah. Thank you so much. Well, so, that concludes our morning session. A huge thank you to all of our distinguished speakers this morning.

[01:44:39] Now now we are gonna take a break for lunch and inform a networking from twelve to p to 02:00PM. This is a fantastic opportunity to step outside, grab a coffee, and have some food. Enjoy your lunch, guys, and see you guys at 2PM. Alright.

[02:41:10] I'm gonna do a little bit of some Ethereum songs and some live looping to carry on. I'm

[03:08:21] from Colorado. That's where I was born. I might go to East Denver. Not quite sure, but I definitely can't wait to go home because I just became an uncle while I was here at four c's. My little brother gave birth for the first time. So family here at four c's feels like it's given me a big gift of a bigger family. I can't wait to go home and meet my nephew, but that's a song about Colorado.

[03:08:44] And East Denver. Shout out Yves Denver team. I hope you guys have a music even if I could make it back. I know you will. It's gonna be a music festival on the outside. The song about the infinite garden inspired by Aya.

[03:25:03] Madam president. Is QZ here yet? Actually recorded that song in Singapore with QZ and some of his friends. So Four seasons made lots of improvements this month. They've built the library,

[03:33:52] added all kinds of new toys and gadgets, and the community keeps keeps getting bigger and bigger. And they got a nomad shop also, and they grill tons and tons of tofu every night. So, you know, it just keeps getting bigger and beautiful and better. So, you know, through upgrades and changes, their brilliance does shine in the heart

[03:34:16] of Ophirion forever in try. And you can go to four c's anytime. Hello, everyone. Our afternoon session will be start in five minutes. Please make sure to be back in your seat on time.

[03:44:17] Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back. Hope you had a really refreshing lunch. Well, so as we move into the afternoon, we're shifting our folks from high level philosophy to tangible action. We'll be exploring how global system and a theory ecosystem translate into local impact, specifically through the lenses of education,

[03:44:40] research, and community building. To officially kick off our afternoon sessions, it is my pleasure to invite a key figure behind entire event to the stage representing Four Seas. He has been instrumental in bringing this version to life and coordinated the incredible support from our sponsors and cohost.

[03:45:02] Please join me in welcoming Vik to the stage for the afternoon opening speech. Welcome. Hello, everyone. I'm Zeke from I will give a simple introduction of Fosys today.

[03:45:29] Okay. Fosys is a community. What is Fosys? Simply, we can say, it's a permanent node in Chiang Mai for the Zulu movement. And also an in is sort of cultural space in Chiang Mai. As

[03:45:52] a permanent nodes, we have two parts in Chiang Mai. One is in Hantong. We call it 4 Seas Mountain View. This space is fit for long term and a big group of people to stay there, focus on their what they are doing. For example, like a hackathon and a

[03:46:16] long term workshop and team building. It's in the it's it's in the mountains, so it's so natural and surrounded by the trees, rivers. It's very nice space. And, the second space is in Ningman. It's just, five minutes,

[03:46:42] far away by walk from here. I think most of you already be there before. For this, Neiman is in the in in the center of the city, so it's different with Mountain View. We have three space, now. One is the main space is, most of many of you, I think, joined joined the the the the events before.

[03:47:11] And, also, we provide co working space. And, also, we have the co living space. So it's combined by this important competent competent competent in this building. And we have the Zello library just started one

[03:47:34] around ten days ago. And we also have Isoreim digital Nomad store. This store, we provide the the local survey local information for the digital nomads for the people, just to come to Chiang Mai. If they need no more information, local information,

[03:47:57] we we are there. And we also provide a to grilled tofu. That's, we created that that space for natural connection. Yeah. If you have time at night, almost every night, we have grill grill the tofu party. Yes.

[03:48:22] And, when we talk about forces, we have to talk about, Plancka DAO. Plancka DAO is is spontaneously organized by a a group of, instrument builders from China. Most of them, they are developers.

[03:48:45] They are researchers. They are PM. So we start the plan, like, 2020 or 2021. And and we we did something important things, like, we incubated the GCC. GCC is greatest Chinese community for public goods.

[03:49:10] So, for public goods funding, we provide, grants to, like, students to join the attend the, like, a DevCon, DevConnect, the the the airplane tickets, and also, donate to, for example, a

[03:49:33] lot of good project in the Ethereum ecosystem. For example, they get p two p, Web three privacy, and, a lot of other communities. We also incubated the uncommons. It's worth green POC and GreenpillCN is focused on cultural enlightenment.

[03:49:56] We have, like, around 20 researchers. And, yeah, very important one is incubated, for this. It's from 2022. We want to try what is the, we want to test, want to do experience to see how to create new new feature in the

[03:50:23] by in the idea of network state. And then we also incubated East Panda. East Panda is a community to to we want to promote more Eastern culture, Eastern community, the technology to Chinese speaking world.

[03:50:49] So this is the planker. So this is four c's timeline. The book there is a book called the network state wrote by Balaji. It's, published in 2020 July 2022. So, after that, we

[03:51:12] find that the timing is coming, so we want to create this kind of project to to see how to make this idea happen. So in the March and the during March and the May 2023, the first time of Suzalu, almost all the members in in in forces, we attended the the

[03:51:38] the events in Montenegro. And in the same year, ZuZulu is decentralized. So we proposed Chiang Mai as the second place for for for ZuZulu. And it's, we make it real, make it happen,

[03:52:01] after one year. That is 2024, around October, the pop up seasons happened in Chiang Mai. And this year, we have East Chiang Mai, also two months long. And, recently, we have a Zuano library. In East Chiang Mai, we got a lot of support from the whole ecosystem.

[03:52:29] Like, Vitalik, he arrived, like, one week, stayed here, and, had us an event. Also, we have, like, Tomas, the director of Eastern Foundation to, support us. And a group of, scholars, researchers, cyberpunks,

[03:52:52] they come to Chiang Mai to, share their ideas to support us. And, Zuzato Library, we just, started in January 25 and opened a Visa, reading group. This reading group, called Let Southern Society Balloon.

[03:53:19] This reading group is leaded by Vitalik from Suzalo community and some other communities members. And we have two, main part in the library. The first the the 1st Floor is a library and, include books in multilanguage

[03:53:42] like, Thai, Chinese, English, Burmese. I I think we will have more books in different language. And the 1st Floor, we also have discussion happen there, like, movie night. I just saw it last night. And then the 3rd Floor.

[03:54:04] So the 3rd Floor is exhibition space. And now we have cyberpunk exhibition called the one way function. It will keep, three months long. So, welcome everyone to video there. Except to the things we do by our self, we also have

[03:54:31] a lot of collaboration with with other people. For example, we we through different ways. For example, we donate to, like, the Moo, Chris Mentor, Pagoda, Shanghai Wu, Wamau, these pop up cities to to to see. And we also provide spaces

[03:54:54] for the different, teams, communities for the in vegetable garden is happened in 2024. It's, it's a fifty days long vacay technology hackathon. And, also, we have a founding the commons residency in Mountain View. And, yeah, just, one week one week ago, we have cyberpunk

[03:55:19] and the thinkers assembly. Besides these big events, the probabilities, we also have lot of small events happened in in in April. For example, this month, January in 2026,

[03:55:44] we have, the virus communities hosts more than 120 events there as every day, like, four four four events happening there. And it's the theme is around the AI, crypto, humanities, longevity, and, yeah, many others. So if you want to host some events, you can apply.

[03:56:09] From ForeSee's website, you can if you wanna know more information, you wanna, like, apply the residency, apply the the public space for your events, just scan the care code and contact us. Yeah. That's for this. Thank you.

[03:56:43] Thank you, Zeke, the introduction of four c's. What now to continue our conversation from fund foundational values to reward adoption, we now turn to a leader who you set the forefront of bringing web three to the masses in this region. Building a decentralized future requires not just a version, but a bridge to the system of today. Our next speaker represent the institutional front of this journey,

[03:57:13] focusing on stewardship, responsibility, and a dedicated balance of scaling Cypherpunk values within a model regulatory framework. Now please join me in a very warm welcome for the leaders driving the crypto landscape here in Thailand, Neera, CEO of ByLance Thailand. Let's welcome. Hello.

[03:57:40] Okay. Okay. I'm I'm waiting for my slide to come up. I'll just not yet. Probably okay. There we go. So hi, everyone. My name is Niran. I run Binance in Thailand. So given you guys are all crypto native, I probably don't have to introduce who is Binance. Right? So today, I'm not here to talk about,

[03:58:05] ETH, specifically because, you know, you guys have a whole week of talking about ETH already. And don't wanna talk about market prices because market prices have been crap for the last few weeks. So I turned to the most boring topic, regulations. So today, representing Binance in Thailand, we are a licensed crypto exchange in Thailand. I want to share with you today what is happening in Thailand.

[03:58:30] Many people here visit us from overseas, I believe. Right? Anyone who live in Thailand or have a residency in Thailand? Okay. There's a few of you. Anyone who come who come from overseas? Great. So let me go through a little bit about, like, where is the Thailand landscape today. And the goal of today is to encourage you guys to stay in Thailand a little bit longer, and I'll tell you why. Okay? So today, I will talk through blockchain

[03:58:59] landscape in Thailand. Okay. So as you guys know, right, Thailand is very, very digital native population. Actually, you can say the same about Southeast Asia in general. Right? We have 65,000,000 people. Now it's roughly 70,000,000. If counting all you guys who are supposed you are here but not counted, we're probably around 75, 80,000,000 people. Right? A lot people live in Chiang Mai, but not properly recorded in the government borough.

[03:59:28] So, we have 65,000,000 people. 91% of them have Internet penetration. We are one of the highest Internet penetration in the world. Right? And the Facebook penetration is actually 1.2. So for every one population, there's actually two Facebook accounts. So we are, like, very advanced. I don't know why people need two Facebooks. We can talk about that later. You guys also know PromptPay. Right? So PromptPay has been one of the most,

[03:59:55] advanced payment national payment rails in the world. Right? I think we are number three in the in the world. And number one is obviously China. I don't know who number two is. My research team didn't tell me, but we are number three. And we process a lot, a lot of transaction over the last, year. Right? We have 2,270,000,000 transaction per month and about 4.2, 3,000,000,000,000, but very big number anyway. So so we are very, very advanced in terms of digital.

[04:00:21] And you guys all know crypto, crypto adoption index, the Chainalysis index. Right? And we are ranked number 17. Right? This this index actually varies from year to year. We were top 10 for a year. Now we are number 17. All in all, we are well we are high up there in terms of crypto crypto adoption. Right? According to crypto chain chain analysis, about 20% of population have crypto,

[04:00:46] which to me is a bit of overestimation, but still, I'll take it. A lot of people have crypto in Thailand. Right? If you look at what is actually reported by the local regulator, the SEC, we have about 2,300,000 active accounts who trade crypto on local license exchange like us. Right? On average, we have a 5,000,000,000 trading volume. The trading volume might not be that big yet, but what's interesting is 2.3

[04:01:11] monthly active trading users is actually more than the traditional stockbrokers in Thailand. So what what what you can tell is people there are more people who's trading crypto in Thailand more than trading stocks. Right? That says a lot. Right? And speaking of the SEC. Right? So for the longest time, the doesn't

[04:01:36] really like crypto that much like any other places in the world. Starting last year, thanks to president Trump, I guess. Right? They're opening up to crypto. Right? Partly because they realized that this is the it's a force that cannot be pulled back. Right? It's coming. So the SEC has taken a decisive step this year to embrace crypto as part of their strategy. Right? So their strategy this year, which was announced two weeks ago, they talk about crypto in many, many places. Number one, they talk about crypto as a new asset class.

[04:02:08] Previously, they see crypto as just random stuff that people some youngsters, the Gen Z trades for fun speculations. Now they're they're actively looking at it as a asset class. They're telling their investor to diversify their portfolio into crypto. So this is a big, big, big step for us. Number two is institutional access.

[04:02:32] I guess everyone is crazy about crypto ETF two years ago. And as normal per every other regulators, they are a little bit behind. So now we are talking about crypto ETFs in Thailand. So this year, at some point, we'll see crypto ETFs in Thailand after you know, The US has it two years ago. Hong Kong had it last year. We are finally having it this year as a we will see Bitcoin spot ETF in Thailand.

[04:02:54] And stablecoins. Right? So not only the SEC, also the Bank of Thailand is also looking into stablecoins. Right? They are jumping in this bandwagon where, oh, you know, Visa, Mastercard, JPMorgan, they all have stablecoins. Every other country every other company in The US now has stablecoins. So now we also want stablecoins. So, yes, there's gonna be a sandbox on stablecoins,

[04:03:17] and we are still testing it as is the the Bank of Tenet is still a little bit nervous about, you know, KYC, money laundering, but they are opening up finally. Right? They're opening up to to explore, to experiment, to see how we can use a stablecoin and the underlying blockchain technology to, you know, make new innovations. So

[04:03:42] a few more practical examples. I guess you guys are all builders here. Right? So you guys can see you can build some stuff. Right? And I think the these are some examples what they have what what the regulators are opening up. Right? So if you guys are in a project to do tokenization, we have there's a the regulators already allow ICO for real estate tokenization. So right right now, there's about six projects, six condos in

[04:04:09] I think it's condos and also commercial mixed use properties that are tokenized and now traded on exchange. So, well, the trading volume is not that much, but it's a very good way to raise funds. Right? So so many people are looking to tokenize tokenizing real estates. This is under SEC regulation. It will take a little bit of time. It's not as simple, but at least, again, my point is they're opening up.

[04:04:35] And another thing that they've been asking us to do is tokenization of, securities. So the SEC, again, sees, you know, the x stocks of the world. They see, you know, they can trade US stocks twenty four seven anywhere in the world. Why can't you trade Thai securities? Right? So they are trying to test out, let's say, money market funds. Access to money market fund is actually not that simple. Right? You had to book open a broker brokerage accounts,

[04:05:05] to actually get money money market funds. But now they are saying, hey. Why don't we oh, and you trade money market funds is gonna, you know, take the two day settlement or whatnot. Why not bring everything on chain? So one of the things that we are expecting to see this year is to is to have money market funds on tokenized on chain. Right? And also cop corporate bonds. Right? So they are starting to do that. And, again, like I said, if you guys are into this space, you know, we can have a chat about how

[04:05:36] you guys can stay here a little longer doing all these projects. Another thing that will be very interesting for you guys is the tourist DigiPay project. Right? Again, this is one of the initiatives that was announced last year. I'm not sure if you guys have heard about this, where, they're opening a sandbox where you can you can, have download

[04:05:58] a local app, let's say, BinanceTH, Binance Thailand, and you deposit crypto and can use this to scan at all the QR Pompe in Thailand. I know for many of you, you guys have those challenges where you want to buy coffee and you have a credit card or debit card or even a crypto card you cannot use on the, national QR prompt pay in Thailand, and this will solve that problem. So this is another initiative they're planning to do this year. Sometime this year, you'll see that you can actually download a local license

[04:06:29] app like us, like Binance, and use that to scan at QR Pompe nationwide. Again, this is a huge step. Right? So all previously, crypto and payment has been something like, you know, I don't know. Bank of Thailand doesn't want it. Now they are finally opening up. I I guess I I I I just wanna emphasize that there's a big willingness for for them to to test. You have to imagine these guys are super conservative. They are very risk averse. The the very fact that they are willing to even test this gives me a lot of confidence that this country, at least minus the election, is going to the right places.

[04:07:08] And the problem, I borrowed this slide from a friend. The problem in Thailand is that we have a big crypto community. But I was telling you guys, 20% of the population have crypto, plus minus, but most of them are just investors. We have a lot of KOLs that promotes crypto. Right? As a BinanceTH, we we hire a lot. We we I don't wanna say hire. We engage a lot of KOLs to promote, you know, our platform to buy and sell crypto. We do a lot of that.

[04:07:36] We have too many influencers. We have too many KOLs. We don't have builders. We don't have people like you guys who actually make the real stuff. Right? Like, it's us marketing and sales here. And one of the reason why we are here, we as in Binance is here, is that we really want to see more of this. Right? We wanna support the Yi Chiang Mai team. We wanna, support all this sort of dev hackathon stuff,

[04:08:00] anywhere. Right? So I'll go into all the education stuff that we do as well. But I'm really, really thankful. I really appreciate that all you guys are here trying to build something, and I hope that you guys will stay here longer to, you know, create ecosystem in Thailand. So, yes, we don't have engineers. We don't have. And and I think our education system, does not fully encourage people to become engineer either. Right? And it's much easier to be influencers. You do one video clip. You make,

[04:08:29] a few $100. Right? Being an engineer to create a platform, it takes time. It's not instant gratification that the Gen Z people Gen Z today wants to see. Right? It takes much, much longer to deliver and ship a product that works. People don't have patience anymore these days. But we need more people like this because, otherwise, all the real value is being built elsewhere. Okay.

[04:08:58] So I'll just I'll take the next few slides introducing BinanceTH a little bit since I'm the sponsor as well, so I might as well say a little bit about myself. Right? So BinanceTH, as you guys know, we are we are a crypto exchange. We have a a subsidiary of the the Binance Global, and we are locally locally licensed. We have a full team working in Thailand serving Thai users. Right? And our mission is, of course, you know, try to drive digital ads adoption in Thailand. Right? We wanna focus very, very much on education,

[04:09:28] on user experience, and building this community. It's not so much about trading between going up or going down. Obviously, it's true. Right? We make money from commission where people trade, but that's not our ultimate objective. Right? Our ultimate objective is to be here long term to build this community in the long term. Right? And given that we are Binance, you know, we have one of the best tech stacks in the world in terms of exchanges.

[04:09:51] We So want to build bring whatever the best out there to serve the people in Thailand. Right? And last but not least is, again, talking about ecosystem. Right? So it's not just about our company. It's just about trading. It's about creating this digital asset ecosystem in Thailand. And what we have done, right, is, what we what we have done again, this is my typical slides that I go meet my

[04:10:13] customers. I'll just share a little bit on here. One one is the platform. Obviously, our platform is Binance. Don't talk talk more about it. We focus on you we focus on users, right, customer experience. I wanna particularly touch a little bit more on community education, and that's why we are here today. Yeah. So so we do a lot of events. Right? Like like, four c's, they have a have a lot of events in Chiang Mai. We also do a lot of events, and we will do even more in this year. Right?

[04:10:42] We want this is a picture of what we did last year. We practically wrapped the entire entire Siam Square area. For those of you who have been in Bangkok, you know the Siam area is the the central area of Bangkok. Right? And we practically wrap it, and we make it into a festival. Right? We have games. We have projects come in, you know, do give education. We have Mudeng. At the time, Mudeng was a pretty big thing. Now not so much. Mudeng was there where I had a booth, and they give out Mudeng,

[04:11:11] plushies. Right? People love it. So we try to mix a little bit of fun and also education in the event. Right? As you can see, like, there's a games and stuff. People love it. Right? And we have people, analysts from different banks talking about crypto prices. Last year was all great. This year, not so much. Yeah. So so that's that. This clicker is

[04:11:35] okay. Again, more more events. So I'll just give you some pictures. So every time some global guys, coming to Thailand, for example, Richard was in was here was here in town middle of last year. We have a small event with Richard. If you guys are part of the community, you guys are invited, obviously, to to to join, our event. Right? So Richard was sharing about what's going on globally. We try to do something different. Right? So we have our community. We go watch football together.

[04:12:07] There was a football night. There was, I think, Arsenal versus Liverpool, but doesn't matter. Yeah. So so we try to do something different to engage community. So it's not just about talking about what crypto is or where the price is going. We are trying to mix the element of fun in in our community as well. And I think the key thing I want to share with you guys is we are very much focused on education. Right?

[04:12:32] Right now, our education covers mostly just the just the, what is crypto, what's blockchain, not so much on the tech stuff yet. Right? Just just a very basic. Right? So we partner with Tamasat University, which is, I think if you guys know, is top two, top three universities in Thailand. So we actually have a full full fledged course where uni grads uni students can take those courses. It has credits, and they count with their graduation. So so we have a full course on that. And we're expanding this to Chiang Mai this year. So we are talking to,

[04:13:03] Chiang Mai universities to give general ed crypto education for for students. Right? People ask me, can we do the next level, which is, for engineers? Where, like, can you teach them, how to code on blockchain? That's not our that's not our, strength at the moment, but we're actually looking into that to see if we can sponsor those those those courses as well.

[04:13:31] Okay. Okay. So like like like like I was saying, like, we we we go to a lot of universities. We also give free courses. Right? If you follow our Facebook, you will see where where we have been. So we we were teaching at universities, at high school, police academies, companies. I think we had on average two events every week in terms of education. So,

[04:13:54] I will will be here in in Thailand, in Chiang Mai more often as well. Last year was very much focused in Bangkok. This year, we're trying to expand to the provinces. So Chiang Mai, likely either Phuket or Hai Dai will be our next destination. So you see a lot you see more of us, this year if you stay. So so please stay. Yeah. I think that's all for my slides. Right? That's all that's all. I just wanna say, like, a lot of you guys, if you guys live in bank live in Thailand and has some sort of long term visa, not a tourist visa, long term visa, you can also use you can also apply to BinanceTH and

[04:14:30] and trade. Or you wanna do on off ramp, you can do it through us as well. Right? You have any questions, you can find me around here later on. Again, I just wanna say, it's been a pleasure for for me to be here, right, to support all the cool initiatives here. I'm not a tech guy, so I might not entirely appreciate what you guys talking about, but I really, enjoy, you know, talking to tech people or try to to see what you guys are doing doing something different. I really wish you guys would stay here in Thailand a little bit longer. That's all. Thank you, guys.

[04:15:16] Now our first panel of the afternoon tackles a concept that is central to the future of decentralized communities, Cosmo Localism. We're here to discuss how we can build locally while coordinating globally. To lead this conversation, we have a incredible group of thinkers, builders. Now please welcome our panelist,

[04:15:39] Dav Lewis, founding steward of DGCNX and Light Forest, Sim Chua, founding curator of SeaPunk Studios, Vienna, researcher at Chipunk, Napam, the assistant professor at Chiang Mai University, and also our moderator, Christine, founding contributor of Ethereum Philippines.

[04:16:02] Guys, let's welcome. Hello.

[04:16:28] First of all, there's a a bit of reshuffling, and we decided that the best person who would be hosting this panel is Vivian. And I'll be sitting as one of the panel. Thank you. Hello, everyone. It's me again. If, you were here in the morning, it's my great honor to host the second panel today. This topic is cosmolocalism.

[04:16:55] I think this morning we heard actually a brilliant talk from, already from Michelle Bowens about what cosmolocalism is. But if it's still kind of a, like, a new concept to you, like, a quick overview of cosmologicalism, it's a a third way beyond state and market. It's connecting global knowledge and philosophical system

[04:17:18] and the local practices. So today, we actually have a wonderful panel, of practitioners who's been connecting the global philosophies of Ethereum decentralized organizing with their communities around Asia, I would like to introduce not not me. I would like to invite them to introduce themselves. Like, definitely your name. How does your work connect to the broader cosmologicalism

[04:17:45] concept in your understanding? Would you like to start, Dev? Thanks, Vivian. Okay. Thanks, Vivian, and good afternoon, everyone. My name is Dev, spelled d e v, but I'm not a dev. That's just my name. I always have to emphasize that in these spaces. And my background is a mixture of I do research. I build communities,

[04:18:10] facilitate workshops, and I podcast. Those are some of the hats that I wear. And as far as Cosmo localism is concerned, my interest and my role has been in creating that culture, coordination that Michelle talked about, the idea of bringing together different people and creating the shift in values and shift in culture on top of which we can build, you know, new technological products and,

[04:18:36] ways of and economies and systems. So I'll pause there and add more later. Thank you. I think we're skipping one for now, and we'll come back to her. Hi, everyone. My name is Sam, Sam Chua. I live in Kuala Lumpur, and I'm based in Asia. I'm here in many hats, but today as the founding curator of this community called SeaPunk Studios. SeaPunk Studios is about solar punk for SEA,

[04:19:00] Southeast Asia, but also SEA as in the sea. Because the history of this part of the world where we are not one one big empire, we are actually a region of many different peoples who were connected by the sea. So in a way, seapunk is a very cosmolocal story where many different places, some islands, some mountains, exchange people, exchange foods, exchange religions,

[04:19:24] and had were able to benefit from connectivity with everybody. So they had a mini cosmo across Seabank that connected and allowed them to share resources, spices, flavors, and ideas, but still very respectively local grounded cultures. So you get a culture in Chiang Mai that's very different from a culture in Cebu or a culture somewhere else, but they all benefit from shared, commonalities.

[04:19:46] So Cipang Studios is about taking learning from that history but asking what can we learn from the history if we reimagine it today? Today, we have Web three. We have generative AI with all these new technologies. If we took that and ask, what would my grandmother invent for the life she wants, the world she wants to have, the community she wants to have today, what would she create? Maybe she would have a village with healthy organic chicken, but also solar panels and,

[04:20:13] crypto money, and all these things combined together. So Sipang's about asking, how do we remix both past and future, in ways that are fun? In Thailand, we like to say, which is a very, like, conveyorable enjoyment kind of thing. The way that our values can actually combine with technologies from somewhere else but become our own kinds of futures,

[04:20:36] and that draws from cosmo local. Because some things Southeast Asia, we love learning from from global supply chains and global ideas, but we like to localize it and add the right chili and sugar so that it may matches our taste. And try we to do that for not just the food, but the ways that we live. Thank you, Sam. Tin. Hello.

[04:21:00] I'm Tin from Eat Philippines. And mostly I do education stuff, but the more important work is weaving all these islands in the archipelago together to be able to collaborate and do something under the same mental framework that decentralization and giving away power to people is what this technology is all about. So

[04:21:24] yeah. It's mostly doing what some does, but inside the islands of The Philippines. So yeah. Hello, everyone. My name is Napon. I am assistant professor at faculty of economics, Chiang Mai University. In my faculty, I I creating,

[04:21:47] the class of economic of defy. Okay? Like, many years ago, four to five years ago, okay, we try to teach the student about defy business. You know, the problem in Thailand right now is, like, young people, a new generation, they're trading token on centralized exchange. Right? They just want to get a profit. They don't even know how the token come from. They don't even know. For example, the token like Uni or Aave, how what what what the business they do. Okay? So the purpose of my class is I want to teach I'm teaching student about the business in the blockchain,

[04:22:23] not only Ethereum, but also BNB, also Solana. Okay? So let them know that we actually have the new economy going on on the Internet on Web three. So that that is the class. Thank you, Nupun. And we have Vienna. Yeah. So, I wanted to go last because I feel like my definition of Cosmo local is pretty local. But first, I'll start with,

[04:22:46] like, mentioning that I help run the ETHKL hacker house and also part of Pagoda, which is this group of, like, Asians in Web three who is trying to integrate Asian philosophy into Web three. And this is also where I think my practice is currently coming from, which is that, I really wanna go super local and super cosmos at the same time. And, I find this true to be, in in my meditation practice. Like, so what I'm actually trying to do in web three is actually aligning

[04:23:19] systems with what I believe is more true to the reality that I experienced in meditation in a very, very local way. But how do I align customer and local, but also because I have a background in sciences as well. But how do I align spirituality or sacred with science together? Yeah. Thank you very much. So you can see that we actually have a very diverse group. Like, everyone is doing cosmo local ish

[04:23:44] activities, but they are all from very different angle. Maybe to start with, since this is East a Chiang Mai event, we can start with, Tin and Nappoon because they've been specifically doing education around the technology. Can I can we actually start with, like, Ethereum or, for Nappoon's case, blockchain, Webfree in general? These, kind of technology,

[04:24:07] how does it take on a more, local taste in your community? Maybe we can start with, Napun to share your idea of what is the value of, for example, Ethereum, and how does it reflect in Chiang Mai? Okay. One one thing that I really like about blockchain economy, about the business on blockchain like DeFi,

[04:24:30] is like Web three is like it's, really easy to connect one stakeholder to the other stakeholder. For example, the business like Uniswap is can connect the liquidity provider to the people who want to swap the token. Right? Okay. Aave can connect lender to the borrower, okay, which is really easy, and everything is, like, real time per block. Right? Really fast.

[04:24:55] And, in in the term of economic theory, we believe in market. We believe in free market. We believe in demand and supply. We believe in equilibrium point. Okay? Let's say. K? And you know that in the real world, the price, the interest, the the currency is not actually come from the equilibrium point. Right? It's it's actually some someone can control it. So in

[04:25:18] in in, for the economic theory, we we want to make the world that is really fair, okay, come from demand and supply. So what what Ethereum what the business or the Ethereum offer is, like, for example, the the the interest rate on Aave changing all the time per block, which is reflect from demand and supply. That thing, we can apply it to promote that local economy or local opportunity.

[04:25:45] For example, in the case of Thailand, Thailand is, like, very centralized in the term of economics. Everything is going to Bangkok. Right? Okay? It's just we we we we have a job. We say that Thailand, have only two province, Bangkok and the less, let's say. Okay? So for example, in the case of Chiang Mai and, some province in the North Of Thailand, we have the number that people in the North normally save a lot of money in the bank. We have a lot of saving,

[04:26:15] a lot of money in the saving. However, all of this money going to Bangkok. Okay? And we have only one market, one credit market, and the interest rate is, like, depend on the Bangkok. How about if we use the Web three technology like Aave, for example, to connect, the server on the local area to the borrower in the local area, maybe a local businessman that they want to get into the, the loan, for example. Okay? So this one, okay, by using Web three, like a Ethereum, like a, for example, we can easily creating

[04:26:47] the local credit market and the interest that are changing depend on demand and supply. Okay? Just like the theory. I think this is quite really interesting to do. So you're saying that for for for a place like Thailand where asset is fully, fully centralized, having this liquidity within Web3 Ethereum actually can support the local By the technology, yes.

[04:27:11] It can support. By the technology, it's creating opportunity in the term of economics, but, it's also depend on the law. I mean, the laws of regulation. But but but the tech the technology, I can say, is is already there. Thank you. Thank you. And what about TIN? Is it different in Philippines? Where what has been the the the focus of The Philippines? Yeah. I can actually relate to what he said about the usefulness of, p two p systems and decentralized systems to a very,

[04:27:41] yeah, a a very diverse local economy. So some background about The Philippines is that people are just trying to get by. They they they are trying to pay the bills. They don't really think about the the macro economy of what is happening. But once you told them about blockchain, they think, ah, I can money with it, but they don't see the application

[04:28:09] of how this can eliminate corruption, which is what they complain about on a daily basis. So our job in EPH is to relate it to this macro problems in the inside the country. And yeah. I I think it is very important for the local people to culturally relate how these technologies can apply to them. And,

[04:28:38] yeah, like what he said, decentralized systems have a lot of role to play when it comes to removing self interested third parties that that are blocking the these economies. Thank you, Tim. So it seems that with blockchain, with Ethereum, we we are actually creating a more diverse local economic here economic

[04:29:01] system here. From that, maybe with Vienna, because I know you've been, working on Buddhist economy. From a Buddhist economy perspective, how do you see, things align actually within, Ethereum or blockchain economy? And, Vivian, if you don't mind, I will share a little story. So a couple of days ago when Vitalik was here, he mentioned something about the origins of Cypher,

[04:29:27] and and he mentioned that it it originated in Arab. And I thought to myself, that is not accurate, actually. Because what happened was that, the idea of that so the word cipher actually, came from India around the fifth century. And during then, it was developed in the Hindu Buddhist,

[04:29:51] universities. Unfortunately, during the Muslim conquest of India, they burned down all the Buddhist universities. And because of that, the the the concept and the numbers got, to Arab, which then Fibonacci encounter it and then brought it to zero. So what happened was the translation went from, Sunya, which actually means emptiness in Buddhism. But it's not the kind of emptiness that we think of it, today. It's like negative one. It in this case, it's more like a vibrating void.

[04:30:23] You know? Like, something that is, you know, a bit more quantum. It's like negative one and plus one, at the same time. So it was brought as from Sunya to become Zafirud, to Arab and then became zero. And and, actually, cipher is also a translation from the same word except that a one, so for zero, it went through, I think, the Italian influence, and Cypher,

[04:30:50] went through the Latin influence. So they actually share the same roots. So the reason I bring this back is because we are in the Buddhist capital of Thailand where I hope that, instead of Chiang Mai being a place where we are just consumer of technology, we can recognize that, there's actually very deep philosophical and even spiritual significance, around this whole concept.

[04:31:15] And we can actually go back there and say, like, okay. What can we create out of this rather than taking sorry. But, like, whatever fire is happening in the West right now and say, like, what are we supposed to protect ourselves against? I really think that there is something deep here that we can actually create out of. And so now on the Buddhist economics fronts, I think, like, that is also something that is underdeveloped right now. And, when I talk about the the connection between Buddhist economics and Webtree, most people just think like, like,

[04:31:45] you know, like, I talked to the monks, and then the monks like, oh, we don't understand technology. And then, you know, I talked to the web tree people like, Buddhist economics, isn't that just like mean, like, you know, you reduce until nothing or something? So, anyway, I think this is a longer conversation, but, again, back to history. Actually, a lot of the monasteries, as Michelle Bowen would say, during the dark ages play an important role in, kind of, like, reviving society.

[04:32:13] But, one of the thing that happened in Buddhist monastery then is, like, some people say, they had actually invented contracts, and this kind of contracts, is, what we know of today, but, because they are kind of, like, an important trust holder in the entire, village. So I want to maybe just stop there for now and see, like, you know, like, if we understand, like, Buddhist economics,

[04:32:37] some of the basics, some of you know. A small is beautiful, or the Thai version would be like sufficiency economics, or the Bhutan version would be gross national happiness, like, instead of GDP. And they do that by looking at a lot of a well-being indicator from biodiversity, well-being, cultural, your psychological well-being, all this. Yeah. I I guess from that, the small is beautiful and connecting to the to the Thai sufficient economy.

[04:33:06] Death here has been working, a lot in Chiang Mai and then creating communities here related to Cosmo Local, actually, together with me. Deb, would you like to share a little bit about the practices here, in Thailand? Like, with the culture here, like, what did you learn? What is the coordination cell? And then how does this Cosmo Local dynamic actually play out in Chiang Mai?

[04:33:31] Yeah. I should say I'm speaking here collaboratively with Vivien as well because we started this project two years ago called Cosmo Local Chiang Mai, inspired by Michelle's work, of course, in thinking about how do we move to this system that is not market and non state. What does it mean to build community centric, common centric organizations? And so for us, we went in this journey, and for us, it meant really going deep into this question of what is local.

[04:33:56] And so in Thai in Thailand, in Chiang Mai, what does it mean to build a cosmo local network of change makers? Michel threw a gauntlet to us and at the end of his keynote, he said crypto needs to latch on to producers of material goods to local production onto which the next evolution can happen. And so for us, our focus is what connecting up to regenerative projects, whether it's eco villages,

[04:34:19] whether it's regenerative farmers, monks. You know, we've through workshops and residencies and events, our focus was to link up all these people in Chiang Mai to start connect to each other, to talk, to have conversations. And one of the biggest learnings I think has been to see local that's beyond just human, but to see local that includes all life. Trees,

[04:34:42] mountains, Doi Suthep, which is right next to us, is a guardian of Chiang Mai. To see that we are all in this, you know, living relationship, which, you know, Buddhism and many indigenous philosophies around the world talk about. And through entering this relationship with land, we can start to really root ourselves locally. We can really start to build trust and build relationships

[04:35:05] onto which we can then embody the values that blockchain and Web three talk about. Decentralization, cyberpunk policies of, you know, sovereignty, privacy. In in many ways, and this is a sort of criticism often of the Web three and blockchain space, you know, the degen cultures that are there that are problematic are in some ways a reflection of ourselves. You know, the aspects of greed, these aspects of not having enough scarcity that we all hold in all of us are reflected back out of in in the world around us. So for us, it was how do we as people start to make the shift? How do we build community around us in Chiang Mai through which we can start to support each other, make these shifts, and then build from there? So that's kind of been our our operating model of theory of change through which we've been building that hyper local part within Cosmo Local.

[04:35:53] So from from the panelists right now, we we we've heard the, the example from from Thailand how this whole, Ethereum economic can can actually benefit the local. We've we've heard from The Philippines and also from the philosophical level. We heard from the Buddhist economies how things are connected and things are moving from a part of the world to the other and then slowly slowly becoming this philosophy that's that's been connecting all of us and also how Chioma has been reflecting to that. I think it's a good time to pass it to Sam.

[04:36:22] From a SIFAN perspective, civilizational, historical, how do you see, like, Southeast Asia is slowly moving towards this, cosmological context? I I just feel like you're a nice person to do that summary. K. That's a big question. I'll start by asking what is cosmologicalism supposed to be an upgrade on? What is it replacing?

[04:36:46] What it's supposed to? And, let's look back over the past one hundred years. We are now, what, twenty six years into the twenty first century. It's 2026 today. The last hundred years saw the rise after World War two of, like, an era we can call globalization. And we're all here because of globalization. We are largely speaking English, maybe Chinese. We are connected by the Internet that also came out of of World War two,

[04:37:11] post World War two, Cold War era technology, like, cipher cyberpunk, cryptography also came out of a similar era. So the technologies that we're all talking about today have come out of this soup. Right? But it also came out of a global system called globalization, where it was about how do we connect everybody, both first with, like, supply chains, but then, like, trade routes and then, like, financially part of the same system,

[04:37:40] and education wise and all these things. Right? And somewhat has been important. That that this has given us, like, Internet, cryptography, iPhones, shared languages. But it also many locals fought back against globalization because they felt like they were being pushed out the way of life was being replaced with something else. And we see this in all parts of the world, not just Southeast Asia. In that light, I think we can think of cosmolocalism

[04:38:04] as how do we remix? What are the good parts of this globalization era that were useful? And what are the parts that we actually feel like the local has been pushed out and we need to, like, remake some of that local? Right? This is not the first time this is happening. There's various calls for localization of different sorts by different leaders and communities over the past fifty years in response to that. But what's new about cosmolocalism is that, well, we can actually have different logics,

[04:38:35] where if we remember what Michelle was saying earlier today, cosmolocalism is about what is light that can travel really easily, we can do as cosmo, and what is heavy, we can use as local. These kinds of logics allow us to actually think about how we remix some of the best parts of globalization, but also new parts or maybe old parts. A lot of regenerative farming is actually drawing from very old old traditions that are way, way before we even invented, like, the combustion engine.

[04:39:02] So how do we remix these things? And so cosmopolitanism for me is about saying we have good aspects of globalization, but we also have aspects that we lost some things. How do we remix and combine them in ways that make sense for today? Right? And I think this is a question that applies to, whether you're a builder, a community leader, a researcher, or or or someone working in the company, these are questions that affect all of us. Right? Because what is crypto for?

[04:39:29] What is money for? What is technology for? It's all about what kind of world do I wanna live in? What kind of community? What kind of place do I wanna live in? And how does what I'm doing become part of that? And cosmoleocalism for me gives us a way to think about how we fit these things in together. What things do we try and connect versus keep local? And coming to the Sipang part of it, sipang's really about saying place has to be part of this answer.

[04:39:54] What works in The UK was is not completely gonna work here because some parts of that are local to The UK. They're heavy. What are the parts that are heavy to Southeast Asia? We are a place of archipelagos, of mountains, of tropics, of different cultures. That heavy has to be part of our solution, but we can learn from the light cosmo things like, online trading networks, information forums, and other things and shared peers to bring it together. So that combination is what Seapunk is about.

[04:40:22] So reflecting this global values of, remixing and then shifting our order and how that actually reflect in the local. Deb, do you have something to say to that? Yeah. I think Sam brings up a really important point, which is as we've built this wonderful sort of global coordination layer, the question is what have we lost in this? And I think a lot of us, and many of us can relate to this personally, we sort of have this ruthlessness.

[04:40:45] You know, we're moving around place to place. We're looking for a sense of belonging. We're looking for a sense of connection, but we don't know how to find it. And it's goes beyond just buying coffee from a local coffee shop or eating like Khao Soi in Chiang Mai. You know? There are many layers to it. And so almost if you can look at what is it localism as a skill. There's a literacy around localism. What does it mean to understand the local ways of relating,

[04:41:09] and what does it mean to find connection to place and land? And so I think we have identified that as really missing piece because without that, as long as we're always this rootless, you know, people seeking, then we're always gonna be stuck in the state, and we can't really guide this movement towards finding some strong grounding. And a part of that people part, the local part is actually the the the human, the community,

[04:41:32] that's around us. Coming back to The Philippines, wanted to learn a little bit about how The Philippines people or the ecosystem that, or the communities tend you have been in. How do they, how do we respond to this global trend of shifting technologies? Has people been accepted it well? Has people been adapting?

[04:41:55] What was the reality there? Yeah. So, a lot of the talents in The Philippines actually go to other countries before they realize other models of doing things. And they they they do like a lot about when when they see when they see systems working well outside The Philippines, they do want to adapt that inside the country. But the problem is we don't have, like, the resources

[04:42:22] that other countries have or yeah. Filipinos are mostly adapt very adaptive creatures. And the the the way you you frame it to them is usually by giving examples, and that is very important. And a very important piece of being a Filipino is

[04:42:45] knowing what others are doing, what your neighbors are doing. And and and that is how positive change happens usually in the country. And, yeah, we also we we also advocate a lot of Filipinos to see beyond just globalism because a lot of our identities also gets lost along the way.

[04:43:10] So that is one thing that we're trying to figure out as a nation aside from the huge diversity that the islands have. We have like 7,000 islands. So yeah. Especially for The Philippines, people speak English really fluently and it's been almost like very much absorbed by the global economics,

[04:43:32] global communities. Right? Yes. The question is, how do you define yourselves if you're a nation of people going going out the land? If you're if you're if you're a Filipino who's known for going outside the country. Thank you, Tin. What about in Thailand? How has the local talents where local people been reacting to this trend of globalization

[04:43:56] globalization and then in the context of, just like, you know, shifting technology, shifting, changing world, how has people been adapting to it? I think right now, how to say in, for for the local economy in the North Of Thailand, we have many product that quite very unique, like coffee beans, something like that. But the problem of,

[04:44:20] the local business in in the North is, like, we lacking of funding. Okay? The money we people who doing the business, they don't know how to connect to the international market. Okay? And, the standardized how to standardize a product to be high quality. So I think it would be great if we have some, like, platform

[04:44:45] that's gonna be connect the local business to the global market and then teach them how to improve the product, try to find the market, and also about the transaction payment gateway, for example. Okay? It it it will be great if we can do that with the Web three technology. How do you feel about, like, Thai identity in this? As in, like, what the Tin was saying that the Filipino has been, like, slowly, slowly actually losing their identity in in a way to this trend of globalization,

[04:45:17] not knowing anymore what exactly they stand for, their culture, their identity. Do you observe the same in Thailand? Maybe no? This okay. So let me rephrase. So what Tin has been saying about The Philippines is that as globalization is happening, people has been losing their own culture and identity.

[04:45:42] Have you observed the similar thing in Thailand, or is it a different case? I think it's quite depend it's depend on the group of the people. Some group of the people, I have to agree that they may be losing the uniqueness of the local, but some people still try to keep the culture, the local culture. Right? So it's,

[04:46:05] I think it's like we need to find some incentive, find a way to promote that people to preserve, right, the local identity and local culture. I see. Thank you. I think Vienna has something to add to that. Yeah. If I may, just now during our lunch discussion, I thought something that, professor Nippon shared was really interesting is, like, this kind of, like, creating a local,

[04:46:32] credit kind of a thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. One one one of one of the problem we have right now in Thailand not not not quite a problem. Let's say a pain point. Thailand is why, we believe in Buddhism. Right? And we believe in karma. Okay? Karma, this is not asexual. Okay? Karma is like the consequence of your what what you're doing. Okay? We have a good karma. Good karma in Thailand, we call it as a bun.

[04:46:58] We we gonna get bun if we do a good karma. Right? And, you know, people love to do a good karma, want to get boon. Okay? Because they believe that in the next life, they're gonna be better, let's say. And a big company in Thailand, okay, they also love to donate. They also love to support the good people because they can use that for the CSR.

[04:47:21] It's would be great if we have, like, a platform, okay, to be a middle. Okay? If you do a good thing, you get a good, you get a good token, let's say. And then you can redeem that token for something else that's, financing by the good company. Okay. I think this kind of concept is gonna be very working very well for Asian country. Yeah. So, again, you know, you don't have to be Buddhist, participate in this kind of thing. But, and you don't have to believe in being reborn as well.

[04:47:50] But, I think the idea here is that because, there is a rich, like, belief around the importance of interconnectedness, around relationality, and that your action actually has consequences, which I think is, actually, integrates well with a complex, systems. If we understand that our action have a ripple effects in the world, that's also maybe an important part of cosmologicalism.

[04:48:14] Even your local action has, an impact, planetary, whether you can, track it or not yet. My hope is that in the future, we can create system that can help you track all these things. And, and this actually is important as well because, it's not just like look at on the surface layer, it's just like, oh, we create a local, like, credit or currency, which we already know has some impact, in I was mentioning with professor that in during the depression,

[04:48:42] in Europe back then, there's a town, in Austria called Wargel that literally revived itself by issuing their own, currency. And it was so successful that, the central bank had to shut it down because all the neighboring, cities were copying their model. Okay. So that's the layer that we're in. Right? But I think also the deeper layer is that, this is something that Michelle and I sometimes talk about is that we need to reset and reboot the current capitalist

[04:49:09] system because that actually come from a certain religious background as well that actually ended up bringing us to now negative one. Most people think that if I'm not productive, I am not worthy. That is actually a religious belief to me because in Buddhism, it's more like you start in zero. You know? You're full of potential. You can be negative one and plus one at the same time.

[04:49:32] You know? It's it's not defined yet. So the the idea that everyone that is born today have this idea that we are negative one. Like, that is the idea that people have when I say emptiness. You know, that means that our mind is already cultured in a certain way. So when I say Buddhist economics, I am just inviting us to say, like, okay, what is zero?

[04:49:55] And, Michelle also mentioned something about Brahmin workers today earlier today in the keynote. And I was thinking like, no. Yeah. All of us. You know, some of us are digital nomads. You know, I lived in The US for ten years. Before that, I was in Malaysia. You know, like so but we are all on our own journeys. Right? But how can we also create a kind of economic layer that can support each one of our own journey, I think, and one that actually maps onto the signs of our actions and consequences.

[04:50:23] Because currently, as digital nomad, you don't kind of care sometimes, like, you know, like, you don't know even, like, what is your impact on certain local economy? So, yeah, this, I think, is something that we have to develop. So I feel like from here, our panel has been quite you see that there's, like, actually local cases talking about losing their identity to or or, like, finding identity, losing identity, organizing to this trend of transitioning technology and knowledge system. But at the same time, there's this very philosophical layer.

[04:50:56] But together, it seems like it's not really coming together yet. Can I have, like, some of our panelists explaining a little bit about how causal localism, like, exactly is connected to, say, Ethereum where we are today for like, why is Ethereum, like, a very important concept or tool that support cosmologicalism as, like, a broader philosophical development?

[04:51:21] Maybe either one of Sure. Okay. I'll answer that, but I wanna add a quick note about identity and the local in Cosmo Local. The Seapunk view on identity and, like, change is not that there is some traditional eternal Filipino identity or Thai identity or Malaysian identity that has to be protected forever.

[04:51:45] The history of Southeast Asia is actually a history of remixes. Balinese identity is remixes of, influences, religious from from what is now called India, influences from the islands that are now part of Indonesia, some part of The Philippines, and many other influences. Most of the nation states in Southeast Asia are actually less than a 100 years old.

[04:52:10] The beginning of Filipino identity was actually after they had been conquered by the Spanish for many hundreds of years, and it took a mixed part Chinese, part Filipino, part person, Jose Rizal, to actually write about this he wrote the word Filipino for the first time. Right? So it's important that we don't get too attached to these identities that pretend like they've been there forever because the real identity of Southeast Asia is we are always remixing ourselves with new technologies and things that come around.

[04:52:41] And this is a SIPANG view about how do we ensure that in this remixing, we are active participants. We have agency. I'm involved in remixing, and I'm not being remixed by somebody else. That's what we see pankaj is most about. If I'm involved in defining my future, I can take ingredients from anywhere, even places that may may speak different languages. And that's okay because you see that in our food. Right? I would say the selfie today is as in an important part of Thai identity

[04:53:06] as the temple because it's part of everyday life in many different ways. Right? Is that good or bad? That's for other scholars to debate, but Sipang's about how do you engage with culture as it is, and how do you actively engage with this? And now to connect to the question about why why is there a Cosmo local panel at an Ethereum conference? Why is the right. Like, what's the connection? And that's because technology

[04:53:29] shapes how we live. The technologies we choose gives us different possibilities. The Internet allowed us to have conversations with billions of people around the world in real time. Internet money allows us to have money that can be private, that can be zero knowledge, that can be programmed to have certain features that allow, for example, a local money system that allows a locality to thrive, or if you also program a global speculative

[04:53:57] trading money system that leads to huge swings in prices, which is part of what we see today. So programmable money gives us a lot of different ways to program our cultures. And if that means that if we, as builders and thinkers, are not thinking about what culture we want, then we are missing out on the real opportunity of technologies like Ethereum. And I think of there's many technologies, many many,

[04:54:22] many ecosystems. I'm grateful that the Ethereum ecosystem has always consciously chosen to also engage with the questions of what world do we wanna live in, what values do we care about, and not just here's the tech. Let's just build with it. Build what? What are we gonna build comes from the question around what values we're going to, that we want to actually install into the world we wanna live in.

[04:54:45] Is there anything you want to add to that, Deb? Well, I think just to quickly wrap up, I think when we the way we've talked about cosmologicalism has, you know, been many different ways. And one thing that I think is coming clear that we're expanding even the idea of cosmolocal of just cosmo meaning global, which is where the root of the word cosmolocal came from because cosmo as in cosmopolitan, which is global, to cosmo as in cosmic.

[04:55:09] So seeing things from a planetary perspective, from a you know? And seeing that everything is interconnected, and as Vienna was explaining, and in some ways being hyper local, which means grounded to the earth, grounded to the land, also allows you to be cosmic because it connects you to what connects everything. And so in some ways, you know, the examples we talked about as well require us to really undergo this shift in our thinking.

[04:55:34] And I definitely feel like in some ways, cosmolocalism requires us to recognize our own power. If crypto is about agency, it's about I am powerful enough to to exercise my agency. I'm powerful enough to see my agency and take the responsibility of owning my own finance. Right? Owning my own keys. These kind of things that we've grown up in worlds where we are taught to be small and rely on the big institution,

[04:56:00] the bank, the university, the hospital to tell us what we need to know. But I think crypto has to start with us seeing our own power and our agency to take on these tools. And through that, we can then start to to build and decide the values that we want. So again, thank you. Thank you for that. So, again, cosmologicalism has been a concept that can be very philosophical, but at the same time, it can be practiced in communities within people with technology

[04:56:29] that's, that can be actually very practical. It can be adopted in many different ways around actually all these different countries, that we are a part of. We are actually at time. Is there any last message you wanna share with the with the audience? Come join one of our workshops, residencies over the course of the year. Come find Vivien and myself. We're happy to talk to you and design something.

[04:56:55] Yes. I like how practical decentralized systems use trustlessness and the language of consequences. And it's very relevant around Asia because you need to incentivize good behavior and disincentivize the bad ones. And that is something that we want to apply to The Philippines. And I hope you support this advocacy and movement

[04:57:20] of Ethereum in The Philippines that we're promoting decentralized systems and for Filipinos to build, with the global community to, have this trustless systems, adapted to Asia. Okay. I think, with the Ethereum's technology, device, okay, Web three, one day local people in Thailand say they're not. They can connect to the world without depend on government.

[04:57:49] Thank you. Thank you. And just a super quick one. Right after Yves Chiang Mai, in KL, the Ethereum community is also organizing a pop up called PopX KL. So you guys are also invited to call list, call work, and there's a hackathon as well. Thank you, Vienna. And Sam? Earlier, someone asked who lives in Chiang Mai and Huddesen, and many of you are visiting, from many parts of the world, like, and a lot from China, especially.

[04:58:14] My invitation to all of you is that take advantage of being here in Southeast Asia to look at what the world might look like from not a big single population or a big empire or a big continent, but in the archipelago of many different kinds of places. And if we take that and we say, what technology can we build? What kinds of archipelagic, diverse, open ended, cosmological futures,

[04:58:39] we can build? Because there's a lot of talent in this room, but there's also so much we can learn from the history of this region. Yes. So this is our panel. We're all from this ethereum community globally sharing the same languages. Actually, we're speaking the same languages here and at the same time practicing our values in different communities, building different societies. And that's, actually, the the spirit of cosmic localism.

[04:59:03] And it's really nice to, to have this, time to share with you. And thank you so much. This is our panel. Thank you to our spontaneous moderator. Right. Thai culture. Right? With with the group maybe? Or okay. Whatever. Never mind.

[04:59:33] Sorry, guys. Thank you so much for all of our panelists.

[04:59:56] Now as we approach our final discussion of the day, we're tackling a difficult but essential question. How do institution involved to steward Ethereum responsibly over the long term? As our ecosystem matures, the focus shifted to work governance, legal framework, and the weight of long term responsibility. To unpack these complexities,

[05:00:19] we have an incredible lineup of experts from across the country. First, let's welcome Devar, the CEO of DevFolio, who has been instrumental in growing the builder ecosystem. Davy Benkay, president of Pondi AI and chief legal consult of Pondi X, bringing decades of legal and strategic expertise. QZ,

[05:00:42] the main organizer of Ethereum Singapore and a pillar of Southeast Asia community. Sanjung, representing Amber Group and Amber AC, focusing on the intersection of research and institutional growth. Guiding this conversation is our moderator, Andrew, founder of Deep Work and a specialist in UX HCI research and organizational

[05:01:06] design. Let's welcome. Hello. Welcome, everyone. I'm Andre. It's a pleasure to be here. And, yeah, it's a pleasure to welcome you here. We can probably, in a second, just continue our conversation that we started on the side. Before we do, I have a couple of questions just for for the audience.

[05:01:41] How many of you are, like, actively building something or, like, involved in building products or projects? Okay. Cool. How many of you are affiliated with businesses or institutions and interested in that direction? Okay. A couple fewer. And, who is interested in education or, like, as a as a core, like, what's,

[05:02:06] okay. Nice. Okay. That gives us a little bit of an idea just, like, who our audience is. So, yeah, let's do a quick round of intros. Would you mind just sharing, like, one minute at most? Like, what have you been up to for the recent, like, I don't know, year or two or something? I know it's like there's way more, but, like, where are you coming from? What are you doing right now in,

[05:02:29] three words or less? Sure. Okay. Three words or less. That's but yeah. So I'm Denver, the cofounder of DevFolio and also the, curator of Eth India. Yeah. Largely, my work revolves around hackathons or, like, weekend parties for nerds and geeks as I like to call them.

[05:02:53] But, yeah, like, we started off building a hackathon platform a while ago, now it's evolved into, like a a much larger project. And yeah. Over the past one year one or two years, I've been involved in organizing a bunch of developer initiatives across Ethereum, also in other allied

[05:03:16] and also, like, different niches like AI, fintech, and more. And one of the interesting things that I did last year was host a hackathon on a train. It was quite cool. Yeah. And, yeah, that's about it. Nice. Thank you. I'm I'm David Kay, and I'm with Pundee X, which is based in Singapore. I live here in Chiang Mai. I moved here ten years ago after thirty years in Beijing.

[05:03:47] I'm a lawyer by training, but I've always been, involved with, the creative aspects of things. And so, during the past couple of years, our company has transitioned from being a payments system crypto payment system to now being a community based verification of datasets

[05:04:10] for AI models and, and agents. So it's been a learning experience, and continues to be one. Nice. Thank you. Hi, everyone. I'm QZ. I just arrived today. Welcome. Thank you. It's been very nice to be back in Chiang Mai. I organized Ethereum Singapore for the last couple of years. I think,

[05:04:33] Singapore is an important place. A lot of things have happened in the Ethereum ecosystem, and so I see it as my duty to hold and to convene the ecosystem every once in a while in my sunny island. I'm also doing venture with the Ethereum Ecosystem Fund. The goal is to support, projects on Ethereum that fully harnesses its potential.

[05:04:56] Thank you. Nice. Thanks. Hello, everyone. My name is Sandra. I'm from Amber Group and m dot a c. Actually, the first time I joined Krypton World is from Ethereum community, but it's like only coming in, not official Ethereum community. It's like a local community. Okay. And then I join another project and then I join

[05:05:27] Emma Group. So it's like from community to project to the and to the fund. So Emma Group is Emma Group is a institute institute focusing on the asset management, market maker, investment, infrastructure, and also incubation and incubation size. I'm the IC focusing on the intersection

[05:05:51] between AI and crypto, and the reason why I joined I'm the IC because I'm really interested in this area. And, actually, it's totally different, between, Raven native crypto world and, institution crypto world because right now, every day, I probably work out because I have enough time. I just work from 10AM

[05:06:16] to 6PM. And then after that, apart from that time, I cannot reply any message. Nice. Thank you. Yeah. It's interesting. I think we're, we have a really nice kind of combination of backgrounds that is very relevant to not just what is, coming now, but also pretty directly. Like, you're all involved basically in building the future or supporting builders who are creating the future.

[05:06:44] Chanji, we had an interesting, like, conversation earlier about the intersection of, like, AI and, crypto. And, one of the things you mentioned is that, basically, a like and the teams that you're also supporting and working with, are moving towards using crypto as a validation mechanism for kind of truthful information that AI can use. Right?

[05:07:07] So or or how would you describe the kind of biggest value that we can see from that intersection between Web three and or crypto and AI? Okay. Actually, the, I think it will be some reasons why this area attracted me. First of all, I think, AI can solve lots of others'

[05:07:30] industrial's problem. Crypto can solve AI's problem because in future, we don't know this AI if this AI do some malicious thing or do some, like, bad thing, how can we know? So we need some, like, blockchain to track AIs active, especially if the AI own their

[05:07:53] own wallet or their own money. Because how do you how we interact in Internet world? So if I pay someone money, I don't know. I pay someone money and they can work for me. But if I'm an AI, just that I pay them money, they don't need to know, they they don't need to know why I even I'm AI. So it's kinda a little bit,

[05:08:22] cheeky sides. I mean, AI can enter their human world by cryptocurrency or by the if they own their own So if we if the AI developed in the next day, how we track AI, how we, know AI, this AI is not that bad or not malicious for us, so we need to try the

[05:08:46] AI. So blockchain is the best way to try because it's like we AI cannot modify the history. This is the blockchain specific site. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And another part is, like, I I believe AI can do a self improving if they can own their own money.

[05:09:09] Because in past, long, long time ago, some human just a tool because they work for some, like, power people or the right people. Because they have, they don't have the, how's that one? The right. So they just choose, kind of choose. It looks like AI. Right now, ads don't have the, power because they cannot control the money by themselves.

[05:09:34] But so, if AI can own them totally AI's money, probably they can be alive in the Internet. So it's another part I'm interested in. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Denver, you mentioned that a lot of the hackers that you're working with are also kind of interested in that intersection. Can you do do you have any examples or any, like,

[05:10:01] stories from how both, communities interact with each other? What are builders trying how builders trying to connect connect Web three and AI? Yeah. I think yeah. I think from my understanding, like, the the crypto community is very interested in AI. Not sure if it's the other way around yet, but eventually, I think they they they realize the

[05:10:28] value of it. But, like, a lot of people are experimenting with, like, now giving, like, AI some sort of money and just letting them loose and, like, using the power of, like, frictionless, permissionless finance

[05:10:50] to just, like like like see see what emergent behavior happens and like, you know, this is example of like, I was just seeing like past few days last last week was this Claude Bot, which was like now renamed to Mold Bot. And then people have started giving them giving it money and then seeing what it does. And then what was interesting was that I was reading some transcripts yesterday

[05:11:20] about where, like, the builder I know he was saying that, you know, he posted a transcript where the AI bot is like, hey. I'm so frustrated. My human gave me, like, money, but he but finally, he has to sign the transactions. And then I've created the transaction, but now I have to wait. I don't know how long for him to sign it. He's, I think he's sleeping or something.

[05:11:48] And I could have like I don't know if it's five minutes or it's like six hours and I could have made so much profit and, you know, so which is very interesting behavior to say the least. Concerning or not is something that we'll arrive at eventually, but it's all sorts of interesting emergent behavior that's happening. And yeah,

[05:12:13] let's see where all of these things go. I think Ethereum is also prioritizing a lot of AI, like, with the new EIPs that's come out like the eight $0.00 4 and stuff. Like, so it's it's gonna be very interesting to see how this space evolves. Okay. Nice. Thank you. David, I have a question to you. David, by the way, has, an interesting background coming into crypto through your, work as a with a gallery. So you're created a gallery yourself. You invited people from very different audiences and different expertises

[05:12:48] and kind of, like, explored how they can bring out the best in each other as well. Right? Do you think that conversation actually matters? Like, do you think specifically, like, trying to figure out the right technology is something is the right way forward? Or, like, what do you think would be helpful for people who are interested in building something for the future

[05:13:13] to consider? I think conversation's essential. So, I although I'm a lawyer and I was, you know, the head counsel of Microsoft in China, I then opened up a, an art gallery in the 798 Art District of Beijing. And, at the same time, I opened up a business incubator. And so having creatives

[05:13:35] come together, whether they're in the in the fine arts or digital arts or in technology, having them talk to one another is what builds vision. And and that's what we're in need of. And the, you know, the the omnipresence and growing presence of AI, is sometimes I I'm I'm not sure if it's threatening,

[05:14:02] or if it can be part of the conversation. I don't want it leading the conversation. I, you know, I want it to wait for my signature before it spends my money or loses my money or makes me money. So I still wanna be part of the conversation, but I think that's what we'll see over the next short while. This is happening at a extraordinary

[05:14:25] speed. Every technology that I've worked with seems to get faster and faster and faster. I was blown away by the speed that blockchain was developing. And now AI, it's a a weekly a weekly thing, but it needs our input. And I think we have to insist in our input. And so conversations among people remain important, you know, whether someone is pursuing a, you know, a connection between Buddhism and blockchain.

[05:14:56] You know, it may may seem wild. I haven't thought about it before, but I like thinking about it now. And I want AI to be part of the conversation. At least that's what I've noticed in the, really, the past couple of months where, you know, I'm talking to a bot, and it's becoming much more kind of integrated into the conversation and taking leads from me. And it should always remain that way. I think it's really important that,

[05:15:25] that our humanity, remain through the technological development. Interesting. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. QZ, do you as someone who's organizing in Singapore, do you see in this specific context what, or what what would you recommend people to pay attention to? So you see a lot of different stakeholders. You see institutions. You see builders. You see educators.

[05:15:50] In in this kind of, like, noisy space, where do you think people should, you know, focus on? So I I'm also kind of involved in the AI community in Singapore, mostly because we come from a similar tradition of open source communities. So I started out with FOS Asia, and a lot of my old friends are now working on AI. And we try to advocate for open models, for example.

[05:16:15] I think it's scary to some extent because, I visited my university last week for for a talk, and, like, a friend who's OpenAI is DevRel now was showing us codex, and I've never seen anything like this before. The time from idea to implementation is now effectively zero.

[05:16:37] Right? Like, you can one shot entire products in one at one go, right, which is very powerful. And so if you can build anything, then what you choose to build is actually a lot more important. And there's, parallels for for Ethereum for this. Right? So we like to say that Ethereum is an infinite machine. You can build anything that you want.

[05:17:03] Most of it has been different variations of the same thing. But what Ethereum folks care a lot about is that we actually try to use Ethereum to improve our lot in some way or another. So as an example I like to usually give is there's, someone once presented okay. Two people presented insurance on chain. So one version is automated insurance. Once you stop paying your premiums, you stop getting medical help.

[05:17:31] It's great for the insurance. On the other hand, I've seen parametric insurance, automated insurance for farmers. Same product, same idea, probably the same smart contract, but totally different societal outcomes. So I would like to live in a world where we are using AI to not PVP or fight each other nonstop

[05:17:54] for, like, superior profits because money is really a temporary thing. And in a post capital, post work world, which I think is gonna happen at some point, it's really important to figure out what is our role at all, if if if any. What you're seeing now is, interesting dichotomy between OpenAI, which is going for general

[05:18:18] AI. Right? So you just tell it it does whatever you want. Anthropic is taking a totally different approach, which is more like software as a service. So they're really winning the enterprise game. These two present two very different visions of the future, but let's not forget there is an entire section of open source AI, like OLAMA, DeepSeek. I think that's a lot more interesting because we are starting to see open source actually

[05:18:43] have a fighting chance in this. Right? Like, OpenAI's model is maybe scoring, like, 90 points, but taking up maybe, like, 100 watts of power. The open source models are scoring, like, 88, 89, but you can run it on your phone. Think I this gives us a fighting chance, right, rather than having all your agency, you know, locked up at some supercomputer

[05:19:06] powered by NVIDIA or Tesla in Shanghai or something. This is very much along the philosophy of DEAC that we are trying to kind of advocate a bit more. So Ethereum Singapore, we ran a couple of DEAC events, and that was really interesting because at that event, I'm not sure if you guys have heard yet, but Vitalik also announced an open silicon initiative. And if all AI is gonna be running on some kind of chip, I think it makes sense for us to at least have the

[05:19:34] choice to build our own chips if you want to. If not, this technology is just lost to, like, some AI high priest. And I think that's, you know, it's really important for us to think about. Yeah. Interesting. Have have you, Denver, like, you you organized the hackathon on a train. That seems to be, like, a pretty wild idea. And I and I I think that, like, you know, what what you're talking about with the open source access to a lot of technology, it's it's almost like it expands the range of opportunities and tools that can be used and recombined,

[05:20:08] which should ideally kind of increase the, like, creative output. So if you think about, like, the the train idea or maybe you've seen other ideas that are very unique, like, what do you think people have in common or, like, the strategies are in common of creating, like, you know, unique and more, like, intrinsically motivated projects

[05:20:30] as opposed to, like, you know, cookie cutter stuff? Yeah. So, interestingly for the train, because we were working in low Internet connections, we had set up our own sort of intranet. So we had Wi Fi on train, but it's connected to synced up to a local server and we hosted our local LLMs there.

[05:20:55] So that's where, like, open source LLMs were were useful. We were using we had hosted deep seek and cached, like, a bunch of stuff, which was helpful. Right? Because we we were passing through, like at at times, we were passing through, like like, jungles and, like, forest areas, like, where there was no Internet connection. So so that was an interesting format. And,

[05:21:18] like, I think in just hackathons and events in general, things are moving towards, like, more, like, experiential stuff because more is possible in in a shorter amount of time. The the whole cycle of, like, going from idea to building is, like, really changing. So, like, for example, now, like,

[05:21:45] back home in India, like, we are we are hosting Anthropic to and and helping them do the first, one of their first, AI hackathons in in Bangalore. And, yeah, like, I was usually used to the idea of, like, thirty hour or twenty four hour hackathons, but this is gonna be a six hour hackathon,

[05:22:09] which is very interesting. And you figure out where where the frontier is now. Right? Is it going to be ideas? Is it going to be, like, whether your thing has a working prototype? And, like like, the the bar simply has shifted now to to to way beyond than,

[05:22:31] you know, just a cool idea. I think it's it's it's going to be very interesting to see how that plays out. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. David, I I was wondering how would you spend

[05:22:54] more spaces for, you know, creative exploration? So, like, the the the train and what Denver idea or, like, one concept or, like, shortening down the time, for example. Do you have any experience or, like, do you have any examples of what can support builders or creative people in, you know, like, leveraging the diversity

[05:23:18] of opportunities that they have and, like, focus on things that matter to them? In terms of spaces? Because I think Yeah. Like, I I think the the the spaces where we create is very important. I mean, I I was very fortunate to to be able to take over this space in the 798 Art District that was designed and built by the Bauhaus architects,

[05:23:42] from Germany. And they, this was a, you know, a factory for producing widgets. And, yet they made the ceilings, you know, 15 meters high. They had windows at the top, so a lot of light came in. And space, I think

[05:24:05] was carrying a space. I still think that that I don't think we're gonna move away from that anytime soon. But so being able to have these, you know, whether they're coworking spaces or whatever and having, I think, importantly, having people from very different areas. You know, again, whether they're visual artists or technologists,

[05:24:30] developers, whatever it is, having them be able to share the same space. Because there is still something, at least in my experience, there's something magical that goes on in that space. There's something in the if you will, that is having people see other people, feel other people creating even if they're creating something that has nothing to do with the project they're creating.

[05:24:55] There's something at work there that I think opens up the mind and thinking. Do have some examples for, like, what would be the some of the more or, like, what what what are the most memorable projects that you've seen come out of, you know, spaces that have inspired you or, like, to inspire people? Right. So I had we had a a a hackathon type thing going on, in the space. And,

[05:25:19] in in the space, also, there was a covered area, where, there was a artist who did body painting. No one could see it, but there was something about that sort of very visually on hands creative process that was going on that I think had an impact on on what developers

[05:25:43] were doing. So I think, you know, again, I think that that people have to try and experiment, but it's really, I think, a really important thing that we keep it human. I get a little bit nervous with, you know, the the robotics are moving at a very quick pace. And I

[05:26:08] can I can yeah? I start visualizing, like, one in my house. Wanna be talking to think is is really important. I have you know, I I'm I'm gonna start feeling like, wow, wow, like some of the others. There's something about the smell of people working,

[05:26:32] of people sweating that I think goes to something very basic inside of us and being able you know, the the machine it's gonna be a while before the robots are able to exude whatever human smell that we do when we we have them create. But I think having having that that human contact with one another during the creative process

[05:26:55] is is important. Interesting. It reminds me of Shanjee, you're mentioning, like, the com like, the combination of AIs owning crypto and, like, using their own currencies with humans. Have you seen teams, or have you do you have any ideas for how

[05:27:19] we might use that combination to improve or support what's what's going on with humans? So, like, what what would that combination enable or, like, what would that be helpful with? So if agents were using currencies, do you think that could change the way that we transact value with each other or,

[05:27:42] information? I'm a little bit confused about this question. Sorry? I'm a little bit confused about this question. Okay. Let me, rephrase it. So when when you think about AI, or agents in combination with crypto, so, like, some of the projects that you were working on, how do you think about that

[05:28:06] combination to be supportive of human behavior or helping humans. So one thing you mentioned was, example, alignment of AI and and humans. Like, that's a, I guess, a human desire to connect better with the technology that we use? Or

[05:28:32] does that make sense? Or or how do you how do you think about okay. So maybe let's go back to the conversation we had over there. Alright. Probably doesn't know I mentioned the consensus. Yeah. Right. For example. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just know we

[05:28:55] we talk about the consensus. Actually, I don't know the AI we are hiring or not. It looks like we don't know what is the human's consensus, how to, human's consensus generator. So we don't we even don't know how humans. So we how to know AIs. So but the only way you we we all know is, like, active. The AI is active. How AI active like this or like that.

[05:29:26] So if we want you AI do the self improving from tools to probably the life of Internet, we need the track. We need the track AIs active, and we also need to give AIs power. And as well, how AIs consensus align with humans

[05:29:49] consensus. I I think it's quite hard, but we can say the I mean, the similar goal cannot hurt the humans. But some AI probably be the I mean, the they want to anti they want to anti. So, I think blockchain

[05:30:12] can, yeah, can provide AI. Right? And also and by cryptocurrency by the wallet and also can track the AI as active. So we can do lots of, like, experience in this area, and we created this environment environment by this blockchain. And also probably, okay, I want you to say, I make money for me. Not just make money for

[05:30:41] now make money by myself. I mean, not as my choice. Doesn't make money, but for me, it can be like, okay. This AI is AI's founders. I invest this AI AI for me. It's it's a little bit different between AI making money for me and AI, help me to make money. Yeah. So it's kind of like we can use AI in different area. Okay. I wanted this AI in the scientist part or biotech

[05:31:09] part to do something for us just by the self improving. And with all the malicious, we need to track. Yeah. So if we want your AI do the self improving, we need to do that. Nice. And also, just now probably I mentioned a lot of about why crypto AI can own cryptocurrency.

[05:31:31] Because in traditional way, the files the file occurrence, we have the permission. So if we go to some specific area like America, like China, like Singapore, we need to do lots of, like, KYC to get the access to use files. If you want your AI get the access to this file, then you need to have AI to do KYC. This AI is not a AI itself. It's AI,

[05:32:01] and you'll be handling this AI. So it's represented by you. And, also so it's kind of like permission, but cryptocurrency is permissionless. So that's a that's a reason why AI use a cryptocurrency. It can be their own money. Yeah. Makes sense. QZ, what do what do you think about, like, enabling or, yeah, more like using tech to support human values.

[05:32:29] That is definitely important. What what can I say? No. Do do you see it's one part. I I get it. I guess Do you see examples of kind of people or projects going in either direction? Yeah. Definitely. I mean, Google used to be, don't be evil. Right? And now it's just like Right. YOLO shareholder value maybe.

[05:32:57] I'm not sure. I mean, so at least from the perspective of the ecosystem fund. Right? Like, we do have a mandate to support open source projects, open standards, and importantly, also to be for Ethereum. And I think it's interesting because people immediately assume that this means that you are like a grant giving organization

[05:33:20] or that you can't make good returns from a fund perspective. I think that's actually quite important that, human values will be or at least how you express these values of what you want or what you also has to be practical in achieving results. Right? So like any technology, suppose, Ethereum is probably best viewed as emerging technology,

[05:33:45] fundamental emerging technology. So the is one use case for Ethereum. But the neutral computing platform, that's really important because with, everything that's happening, privacy is something that is going to go away very quickly.

[05:34:12] And us to see a corporation to obvious reasons. And so a neutral a genuinely neutral computing platform to do privacy preserving computation is quite important. And I think that's one way that we can express or to reinforce our values, using the technology that we're given. Right? So that's that's one. Censorship resistance is another important value of Ethereum,

[05:34:39] and this is increasingly important. I remember I was in Switzerland once and I was talking to actually lawyers, and we're talking about Bitcoin. And they were like, isn't Bitcoin, like, use my money launderers? And I was like, okay. Let's take a step back. Bitcoin is a what? Oh, it's a open ledger. How do you launder money on an open ledger? And then that clicked because then he remembered many years ago, apparently,

[05:35:06] the SWIFT or some of the American, financial authorities started to layer on additional anti terrorism rules and banks had to comply. And if you did not comply, you were basically cut out from the financial system. Generally, we based, but now I think it's a bit more fickle.

[05:35:32] And so censorship resistance actually can be better described as seizure resistance, and I think that's very important because currencies, stocks, anything, actually, all of them are run by custodians. Like, when I first bought a stock in Singapore, was very surprised because it went straight to the central depository. So I never touched it. So I have no idea. I still get letters, but I have no idea how to access it anymore.

[05:35:57] That's quite scary. Right? And so seizure resistant, privacy preserving, think I that's really important for us to stay human in a world that probably will see less and less humanitarian too late. I'm sorry. But someone's gotta ask the question. Don't you think it's too late? I mean, I don't I I would like to be hopeful. My

[05:36:20] father, who is a lawyer of blessed memory, was a incredible advocate of privacy, of being able to, you know, protect your identity, protect your finances, protect all of these things from the government. And if if he were alive today, he would he would throw up at the at at what's happened. I mean, I think, at least personally, for my little isolated space, but I think the pandemic

[05:36:50] was this huge turning point where we decided, okay. We don't in order for us to live, we're gonna have to give up our privacy. We're gonna have to, relent on certain civil rights that we've enjoyed for, you know, however long that we do we're giving this up. And now, you know, when I when I see what Palantir, the type of private data that that Palantir has and all that, how do you how do you turn it back?

[05:37:18] How do you how do you you know? I mean, there there was someone in the earlier, an earlier panel who talked about being able to, like, retrieve your private data and bring it back. But I think mean, I I I would like to be hopeful about it, but to me, it seems like it's too late. Anyhow. So, like, three years ago, Vitalik wrote a blog post called my techno optimism.

[05:37:45] I think that's still very important. I've said this on a couple panels, but, like, I think to be in a theorem is to be very optimistic all the time. No matter what the price is, no matter what the sentiment is, like, optimism is something that we hold very dear, and it's the only hope we have left. So what what is the other best chance to preserving our privacy? Actually, nothing else.

[05:38:10] So to to all the builders out there working on Ethereum, right, I I I say, you know, this is your calling, I suppose, or your duty. Right? For us that understand, who have at least some understanding of what we could be doing, then we will have to be the ones to actually do it. If you have some time, you can take a look at the trustless manifesto that was written last year. It caused quite a ruckus because,

[05:38:34] you know, it said some things like Ethereum wasn't created to make finance more efficient. I actually agree. Right? And, hopefully, that helps to maybe add more layers to why, you know, building the values matters a lot. Right? Like, even when I was in Chiang Mai the first time and I met the community, I think the the Chiang Mai community, the 4 Seas community, the Wamau community,

[05:38:59] started very simply, very purely from its values and have kept very close to heart, like how they put it together, how to design it. It's very community centric. This is very difficult for event organizers. You know, as one who have done it before. Right? It's always very tempting to do it bigger, to do it, you know, larger, to invite all sorts of random stuff. Like, that's to to choose not to do something is also very important. Right? So same thing. Right? So we we could choose to have, like, a surveillance blockchain on Ethereum,

[05:39:29] but we don't. And I think as long as we can somehow try to preserve this, right, we will attract people that see this. And I think that's why we spend more time with open source communities. Because back in the day, like, when you talk to people from Force Asia, for example, back then they were fighting the lawsuits between, like, Oracle, Java, and and it was it was the path laid by, you know, these open source licensing,

[05:39:55] battles that give us what we have now. If not, we will all be using Windows. Yeah. Yeah. It's I I like that perspective. I, I was also wondering kind of, like, also from kind of all of you as well, like, what do you think is unique about the Ethereum ecosystem? And, like, you're already mentioning kind of, like, some of the technical

[05:40:19] properties, but also the the values in itself. What what is what are you thinking, Tanner? Yeah. I I think like, I was I was thinking about these things as when, folks were chatting. So, like, right now is the time where all of us have to be intentionally and deeply think about what kind of future we want to live in

[05:40:45] and then work backwards towards creating that future. Because now even, like, the the ability to change, at least some part of the world in a meaningful way has come down you you need lesser and lesser people and lesser and lesser coordination to do something meaningful. Right? Especially,

[05:41:08] like, when you have an an a a second brain of with with AI. Right? So then it matters what what you believe in and what what you want to see in the world. There's this quote by by by Gandhi from my country that is like, be the change you want to see in the world. And I think,

[05:41:32] Ethereum encodes some values inside the chain. And it's interesting to see, like, in the short term, maybe those values, might lose us some sort of mileage or traction. But I think in the long term, I would want to live in in a world where things are more neutral and fair play, for a lot of people.

[05:41:58] How we get there is a good question. Whether, you know, in the short term, like, are other approaches which are getting more traction. Do they do they win faster than us? Does the world become corpus lop faster than we we we we think and we can adapt? But but yeah. Like, it's time to, like, you know, really think about what kind of future we want to live in and then work backwards.

[05:42:24] And it it's possible for for, like, you know, at a unique time in history. Yeah. Nice. Thank you. David, what kind of future do you think is buildable with Ethereum? I mean, I you know, it, it often comes to sort of the leader. And I think, you know, Vitalik has been a, you know, has held on

[05:42:47] to core values and I think is trying to bring, bring those core values back because I think they are I think they're under attack. You know? And, again, I mean, I I want to remain think because he also stands for that optimism. And in terms of people collaborating

[05:43:10] and working together, not necessarily in small dev teams, but a larger kind of collaboration, the importance of community, because I think I I think there's gonna be a battle. I you know, I'd like to think of it in other terms, but I think it it will be a battle. And so I think, you know, I think the the

[05:43:33] community at large is in one way or another preparing for that battle. Thank you. Sanji, what about you? What do you think makes you Ethereum unique? Okay. I think it should be the antisensitive. Because, you know, there are lots of, like, other,

[05:43:59] ecosystem, other blockchain, but I think that ECR ring wouldn't be the the most anti sensitive, blockchain in this air in the world. And, also, I think, it also plus decentralized because right now, if you want to I mean, is there a ring ecosystem distribute value to the builders more than traders? But right now, you see lots of, like,

[05:44:25] ecosystem and then distribute the wallet just to the trader. If you trade lots of meme coin, you will get lots of, like, money. But in the early stage, Ethereum ecosystem distribute the volume to the builders. So that's another part. And it's kind of like if you build on Ethereum ecosystem, I mean, it's like more and more people get

[05:44:49] more volume. It's like bigger range of people. But right now, other system is like a small range. Yeah. Nice. Thank you. I would love to close on this beautiful note. I hope that it was insightful for you, and now you understand different perspectives about the culture of Ethereum and maybe some

[05:45:13] ideas might emerge in your world about how to continue. So thank you so much for your time and for your thoughts, and I will see you next time. Thank you. Have a nice day. Thank you so much for our panelist.

[05:45:55] Now we're gonna take a final 15 break. What's coming next is a highly anticipated fire Filesat chat featuring Vitalink and Michelle followed by our Hackathon project demos. Stay tuned. We will stick back here shortly. Welcome back, guys.

[06:01:36] Now we've now reached the most exciting part of the summit, the hackathon demo session. After weeks of building, it's time to move from theory to execution To lead us through this project and showcase the real innovation happening right here in Chiang Mai, I'm handing the stage over to one of our judges. Please welcome our host for this session, Aurora. Hello, guys.

[06:02:07] People are still trickling from the tea break, but we are just going to start. And for the last two months, Chenmai hasn't really be a backdrop. It's been a living laboratory to encourage builders to create and learn and discuss with each other. So we've been spend a whole day listening to industry leaders to share really good insights about the industry and what they see as a future of Ethereum technology.

[06:02:31] Now for this chapter, why don't we transit from listening to seeing actually what is being built? So to give you a peek behind our East Chiang Mai Hackathon, we had over 120 bidders fueled by more than 350 cups of coffee over the past five days. So in total, we have over 43 projects submitted

[06:02:54] in the end, and we have our winners. So we have four, core themes, privacy, digital resilience, digital economy, and AI and blockchain. So, they aren't just tracks on the slide. They are open source project, which you can see on the platform. The whole universe can see what's going to be built and how to contribute to the tech society.

[06:03:16] So now it's time to see what all that can think in late night, granting has really produced. Let's welcome our top winner to stage to show us what they would build. Now let's welcome our number one prize winner, Orbit, to showcase their product. Welcome. Good afternoon, everyone. So first of all, I wanna say thank you for Yip Chan Mai for giving us a chance to showcase

[06:03:47] our abilities to build on top of Web three. We are Orbit, and we're building a solution to solve a major privacy problem in blockchain. So I want you guys to imagine yourself as a boss trying to give your employees their salary. So after you've done your transaction, what your employees can do is they can track back your wallet address

[06:04:11] and see all the transactions that you have made, all the balances, all the tokens that you hold. So this is what this is the major problem that we're trying to solve. And public blockchain is overexposing data. Some data aren't supposed to be seen by the public. And encrypted chains like A Stack have a very small ecosystem, and they tend to fail for compliance.

[06:04:35] Next. So this is our whole concept. The sender and receiver has a very strong linkage on top of the blockchain. Everything is traceable, and everything is transparent. That's why we have Orbit where we cut off the linkage between the sender and the receiver while storing the proof and the validity of the transaction on chain. So we're not actually migrating people to a new solution. We're actually building a solution on top of an existing ecosystem,

[06:05:06] Ethereum. Yeah. So this is our whole concept, how we achieve ZK wormhole to cut off the relation between sender and receiver. So the sender will shield their tokens inside of a zero z k burner wallet provided by Railgun. So for each transaction they made, we generate a burner wallet for them to make a shielded transaction to the receiver.

[06:05:32] After transaction has been approved by the girl 16 z k snark, it will then sign the UTXO. The UTXO will be then signed by the Wahoo layer on the Wahoo network. And then at this point, the connection between the sender and the receiver is cut off because the one signing the transaction isn't you. It's the relayer on Wahoo.

[06:05:56] So Wahoo pays the gas, signs, and unshield your transaction to the receiver. Yep. And we've also implemented ZK Swap where we allow people to swap tokens anonymously. You don't wanna see your swap transparent on a blockchain. Sometimes people wanna swap privately.

[06:06:19] So this is our solution. We use Stargate to allow people to swap across different chains and bridge across different blockchains. Yeah. So next. So as you can see, the ZK swap has a very similar structure with ZK wormhole that we've developed. This is because we use almost the same concept provided by Railgun. We use a ZK wallet

[06:06:43] to, yeah, to shield their funds and then using Stargate protocol to aggregate across different decentralized exchanges to find the best route so they can get that their swap at the lowest price possible. And then at the destination chain, the swap will then be executed by the executioner. For this example, we use Uniswap. Yeah. And we've also implemented ZKPUP

[06:07:10] as our on ramping and off ramping protocol. So when you on prem and off ramp, typically, you'll use something like Binance, Vibbit. These are centralized exchanges, and they expose your bank details, your wallet, and their relationship on chain. So which is a privacy concern. What we're trying to eliminate is we we allow z k we allow p two p to happen anonymously

[06:07:38] and without the use of centralized exchanges. Yeah. K. So what I wanted to show you now is a demo video of our solution. So

[06:08:09] we allow people to on ramp using the ZK p two p, which seamless. They don't need an they don't need a centralized exchange. And we allow batch transfers and allow stealth mode for people to transfer anonymously. So people can send different amounts using different tokens to different addresses without being tracked. And this is the wallet we have generated for them for each transaction they've made using the Railgun protocol.

[06:08:39] And for each transaction, there will be a POI phase where we verify that the transaction is innocent. And here's the transaction where the sender and the receiver is unlinked, but the transaction is valid. And we're not just trying to build a whole new protocol for people to migrate into. We're building on top of existing DeFi protocols so people can integrate our privacy solution

[06:09:05] on DeFi protocols. Let's say you wanna interact with Polymarket, but you don't wanna let people see what you buy what what you have bought. And, yeah, we basically provide privacy without let we without requiring you to move into a new wallet. We let you to collect, we allow you the opportunity to connect with your existing wallet and at the same time, make private transactions on a public blockchain.

[06:09:35] Yeah. So this is our solution, and we are Orbit, and a very thank you for all of you guys. Okay. Next up is our, number two winner,

[06:09:57] second second prize, and win this prodigal. Let's welcome him on stage. Bo, is it set up? Okay. Taking some time to set up. Just a brief message that you can find all our project online. If you visit the DevFolio, it's Chiang Mai. DevFolio is a platform supported by one of our previous panelists, and you can see all the project details as well as our wonderful viewers'

[06:10:23] information on that web page. Hi. I'm Bo,

[06:10:49] and I built witness protocol. Evidence disappears when it matters most. It can be deleted, seized, disputed, or gone, especially for journalists, activists, and abuse survivors. The genesis of the idea was about a week ago or week and a half ago, I heard that Alex Preti had been murdered in, Minneapolis. And I immediately went to X to see if there was a video of this, and none of the videos would load up to the point where he was murdered by the police.

[06:11:20] And then, like, I saw a video on TikTok that was clearly edited. You know, like, sized down and then drifted away when when the actual, like, murder happened. Not only that, but Alex Pretty had a phone himself, and I've never seen that perspective. And so I built witness protocol. The how it works is you record as you're capturing video. It's chunked and encrypted, sent and stored on IPFS,

[06:11:47] and then a Merkle root is updated on chain to attest to, like, know, that nothing's been changed. Then members of secure groups can attest using a a Symaphore ZK proof. And here is a demonstration of how it works. So I'm in the UI right now.

[06:12:15] I am going to send myself an email, which is creates a privy wallet. And I'm gonna k. I have the code. Oh, shit.

[06:12:53] Okay. I gotta do it one more time. This is more difficult than I imagined. Okay. I've logged in. This is creating a wallet in the background, and then

[06:13:17] I'm going to register on the smart contract, my contract registry. That creates an ERC $4.03 $3.07 wallet and registers my address on the smart contract on the blockchain. While that's happening Okay.

[06:13:41] I am going to create a group, and let's call this group, like, neighborhood watch. Oh, whatever. I'll just call it x. Okay. So that's creating a group. I've already logged in and registered a client on

[06:14:10] my phone, which is right here. So I'm going to, on my phone, scan to join this group. This is submitting a transaction to

[06:14:33] create the Symaphor, group. Then I'm gonna record and share with the group. Oh, hold on. Okay.

[06:15:03] Taking a video of you guys. Hello. Hello. And then that'll submit on the blockchain, and we'll be able to view it in just a second. So if we wait for evidence to propagate,

[06:15:29] looks like it's there. We'll download the evidence. Watch the video. Oh, you guys look so beautiful. And then we'll say, hey. That's that's real. I think that that's real. I trust the person who submitted it, and we submit the semaphore attestation. This creates,

[06:15:56] you know, a censorship resistant, evidence chain. And, actually, I think this is the wrong slide deck. But the point is that that The US and, like, ICE protests are the context in which I developed this, but your context may be different. And if you think that something like this, durable records, that are distributed and saved on chain and also verified on chain would be useful, for whatever your use case is, then I'd suggest, talking to me. You can email me, beau, beau,@squirrelylabs.xyz,

[06:16:33] or you can talk to me, add me on Telegram at birds are fake. But, yeah, that's that's the demo. Thanks, guys. Okay. That's wonderful.

[06:16:57] Insisted on live demo that shows the confidence of the builder as well as the charm of, like, building and watching what really works. Yeah. So next up is our DID protocol, and we're just taking some time to adjust the presentation. So please be patient. Oops.

[06:17:41] Okay. It's working. Hi, guys. I'm Harold. Good afternoon. So today, I'm gonna show you is DID port loader, and the ticket card is pretty long name. So what are we doing is making real world identity verification verifiable on chain. So I still remember when I joined Web three. So it's at 2023.

[06:18:03] So there's lots of amazing concept. It's all talking about the decentralized society such like Dusallu, decentralized identity, and the autonomous world. But all of them are worried about one crucial question, which is cyber attack. So here's a existing project called called ZK Passport. So so so they're using the ZK circuit to prove your some of your information on your passport

[06:18:30] and to show you satisfy some requirements. But there's one crucial point. ZK passport cannot prove you are the owner of your passport, which means you can borrow the passport from someone else and create so many account. Even then do the face matching, but ZK cannot prove where the face image comes from.

[06:18:54] So our solution is we bring the reality to digital proof. So in our solution, we use a TEE. So here's a demo. Yep. Okay. So do you have me to click? Thank you. Yeah. So it's quite like the normal, you know, the scanning. So you first scan your passport.

[06:19:20] It's a little bit slow. Yeah. After scanning the your face information is already stored in the NFC chip. And here, we check the house of of the application. Once the house check is passed, so you can compare with your face. So once the face match, you can binding the passport hash

[06:19:43] with your EVM address. And here's our another thing. So when when you combine with your EVM address, you can use premise to prove some another another feature. So, like, prove your asset from the CEX and the link with with that EVM address. Yep. And the next page.

[06:20:08] Okay. So our tech stack will in this demo, we use premise, and we use a e pass e pass for verification and attestation on mobile phone TEE and local face recognition model. Yeah. So oops. Okay. So I want to talk about the difference about the eight k and the attestation.

[06:20:31] So in the eight k, we have a box. In the box, you can run an arbitrary computational process, and you put a seal on the box. And so anyone can check the seal. So if the seal is not broken, so you can believe the box the computation in the in the box is safe and can be trust. But with attestation,

[06:20:55] we can do more. Even it's a little bit centralized, but a test station is a seal to seal seal of one application. So in the application, the you cannot sorry. You cannot only do the computation. You can also call API. You can also restrict where is the data comes from.

[06:21:20] So attestation can help us do more. Yeah. Oops. Yeah. So for example, so in our application, we use we we call the iPhone camera on on in in our application, but they cannot do the restriction. Yeah. And here's our team. I'm Harold and

[06:21:44] Beer and Dylan and Eric. Yeah. That's it. Thank you. So if you're interesting about the Apple test station or you're interested with the demo, our code is 100% runnable on any iOS device. And here's the GitHub, and here's my telegram. So we're come to ask our any question. Thank you. Yeah. Hopefully, enjoying the presentation, and, you know, definitely give a star on the GitHub.

[06:22:17] And next up, we have a very special project. We have a special track as, named as localism in our hackathon, which is, kind of give credit to project that combines technology with the local life, the local society around us. So local life protocol is going to present us how they are going to solve local problems and to help with the local economy with technology. Okay. Let's invite Sanju.

[06:22:49] Give him give her a warm round of applause. Okay. Hello. I'm Sanjin. I'm Alex. Okay. We build the local live protocol. It's kind of like program per trust for local live. We use the we use the AI agent, ERC8004,

[06:23:12] and X402 to build this one. Okay. Okay. Actually, this, situation we found, from this area, Chiang Mai. So imagine if I'm, digital no man or the free, freelancer or the local service provider. If I am the Thai massage provider,

[06:23:36] I can only speak Thai. I cannot speak English. So I don't know English marketing and the global algorithm, so I'm very hard to get the, target to the global traveler to here. And, also, if the if someone booked my, time, but they no show, I will lost my time and my energy.

[06:23:58] And if and, if I got a lot of customer, but they are I mean, they are from the different, social media, my review, we are and the credit data is now portable. So, our solution is internal driver protocols, by okay. We use AI agent as a twenty four and twenty four statement,

[06:24:22] dealer brokers. So, even I don't know lots of stuff, I just chatted with, AI agent. AI agent will help me to list the service where the local, language or just by the voice chat. And, also, we do the, intent log. So, AI agent not only translate the, translate the needs and also store the agreements on chain.

[06:24:48] And we use the, x four zero two protocol to do the, income guarantee. So, from, impostor, we just like, okay. Transfer. I book your time, and then we face to face. It's cancel one time. We use the this one to do the commit, lock the phone at the booking time, and also is instant payout upon the confirmation, so from the

[06:25:13] committed to the. And we also use the this one, ERC48004 to create a credit a set credit system. So, like, every cryptocurrency order means a deal on the batch and also the credit owned by the individual not applying for. Because in the past, if you register a platform and,

[06:25:40] you lose your, account or your account abandoned by the platform, you will lose every credit from this platform. And, we use AI as meditation. So based on the AI analog has prevented the malicious. We found that with a v with evidence based logic.

[06:26:03] Yeah. Okay. We are not building the not only build the app, we are kind of, like, plugging. So protocol as a pro protocol as plug in, we integrate it to the line, WhatsApp, Telegram. Use this app just like chat with a bot, chat with just a chat. And, also, it's kind of invisible

[06:26:27] with web three with the e EIP three zero zero nine. So, like, you don't worry about the guest fee. Okay. What we want to build is we want to build the first delivery, first SATAL programmer create a system for the micro worker

[06:26:50] globally and also locally. And as well, I think in future with the AIS, where a one can be the micro worker. So because a one, you just do have your own skills, probably you are very good at tea, or you are very good at the massage, or you are very good at, like, lots of knowledge part.

[06:27:13] You can get your own AI digital broker for sell your skills or even the AI can sell your AI skills. So we want you either use this kind of technology to build to help the micro worker. Yeah. This is our

[06:27:42] demo video. So this is the overview of our website. And I think Chiang Mai is very, mean, international city, but also very, very local

[06:28:05] place because there are lots of, like, locals, cultures, or some, I don't know, something we can explore. Yeah. I believe there are lots of, like, local style. Okay. Thank you for everyone. If you are interested in this one, please feel free to touch me. Touch us.

[06:29:07] Thank you. Okay. Right now, we have the final team, poll x AI, which solves really practical issues if you ever trade meme coins. Okay. Let's give them some time to set it up. But, basically, after this last hackathon demo, we will have, you know, fire chat between Michelle and Vitalik. So stay tuned. Hello,

[06:29:47] everyone. My name is Alan. And what we build in this hackathon is we build, like, a min coin trading alert bot. So everyone might use this and it is very useful. So please scan our QR code and which is our Twitter's account and we will have some airdrop or some kind of incentive in the future. So so what what we are building this is because in current Web three area, everything appears

[06:30:15] very quick and they'll have a lot of information and a lot of things that we need to address. And the third part is that they have too many platform and too many information that we need to address. We need to, like, realize what kind of signal that is useful, what kind of signal is not useful. So that's why we build this platform. So what we have built is we have a real time KOL signal trading, and we have a unchained immutable call records.

[06:30:41] And the third part is that everything is instant. So we have a really quick WebSocket provide. And this is our pipeline. So after we monitor our Twitter users have sent a tweet, we will use some AI agent system to analyze all of the system and trying to record a CI mapping and using our, POWERX like AI and to analyze all of this interaction. And later on, we were, like, trying to send this to a telegram or to the API you have used.

[06:31:11] So this is our service. So if you are a developers and you want to use our service, please scan a QR code. This is our GitHub. And in the GitHub, we have a lot of data API, and you can, require a access key from us. So after you have used our API, you can get all of our Twitter's data. We have labeled, like, 40 thousands KOLs tweeters Web three tweeters data. So you can use all of this data in our database.

[06:31:38] And this is our, like, pipeline. So this is now use oh, this is our overall pipeline. So we have, like, use a lot of AI agent and trying to analyze some, signals and use this signal to, like, analyze what kind of trading we can do, like long main coin or short some l coin. And then everything is instant. Everything can appear very quick. So this is our team. And, if you wanted to, you can scan our Twitter. This is my Twitter account, and my name is Gokul Allen. Yeah. So in this presentation, we have a lot of work to scan. Yeah.

[06:32:13] So this is our demo. So in this demo, you can see that we can you can see that Twitter's KOL you want, and you can see that, we have collects all of our Twitter's information. And the best part is we provide, like, a UI UX the the Telegram login. So it has the best UI UX experience. Like, after the telegram login, you can get your Solana address and your BNB address, and you can start sniping the KOL you want. Like, right now, I have selected KOL,

[06:32:39] and this is our, Twitter's account, PowerX. So after I text something, q u q. Q u q is one of the main coin on BSC. So after we detect a BSC, main coin, it will start to take it, and it will start snipe it. So it will buy it instantly. So you can see all of the detail of what we have done in the back end. So everything is transparent because we have a transaction hash. So you can see what you have done in the past, and we have provided BSC and Solana. This is a main to

[06:33:09] meme coin trading platform. So you can see all of our information here. Everything is transparent, you can log in with Telegram. So you can get the address and go get get your private key from your Telegram accounts. So we provide the best UI UX experience. So this is our another platform, which is like a Telegram bot. So, the past is like our Twitter's account, and this one is our Telegram Stamping bot. So if you guys right now want to experience

[06:33:37] how fast our WebSockets can do, please scan our Telegram bots. And this is a really great alpha. Right? Everyone can take out your phone and please scan this because, yeah, our WebSockets a lot of time is, like, about, like, one hundred millisecond to five hundred millisecond. I guess this is a fattest in all of a WebStreet world. Right? We have spent a lot of time working on the back end system, also the WebSocket system. So please scan it. Yeah. And this is just a demo to demo how fast our telegram bots will be. So, yeah, after I scan something

[06:34:11] and after this is what I have at account. This is our telegram bot, so you can just scan it. And you can, like, experience. You can just follow yourself and, like, make a tweet, and you can see how fast how the back end work that we have done. So, yeah, it is really fast. So, yeah, you can just I I I just take a pause. So PowerX AI is our teachers account. Please make sure to follow it. We will have some incentive, and we will have some airdrop in the future. So, yeah, I just make a post. So East Chiang Mai, let's fucking go. So after I post this, you can see that the telegram bots will alert it. So everything

[06:34:46] appear really fast. So, yeah, East Qi Mai, let's fucking go. Yeah. We have a telegram bots. So if someone is from East Qi Mai, feel free to repost our Twitter account and trying to promote. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. How do you feel about the demo just yet?

[06:35:12] You like it? Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Always love the enthusiasm as well as just the passion showing in the Hexagon demo. And yeah. So as you just listened, just heard that our last agenda today is going to be a really landmarking, dialogue between two great thinkers of our age,

[06:35:35] Michelle and Vitalik. So they will take some time to streaming in, and we will set a technical setup. But just a pretext for what they are going to discuss, we are going they are going to discuss the architect for a decentralized future. And just to introduce, you know, Michelle Bowens to everyone, Michelle is a founder of p two b foundation.

[06:35:58] For over two decades, Michelle has been the philosopher in shift, of the peer to peer movement. And even long before the word decentralized become popular in the world and social media, Michel was already traveling the world. He just told us how he, really worked in different countries for, very long years, and she he really took his time committed to know about local culture and local life and how to combine technology

[06:36:26] with those, changing and shifting landscape. And he was documenting how humans can collaborate without, hierarchies. He is pioneer for cosmolocalism, which we just have a wonderful panel about all that. And, hopefully, you took note, and, hopefully, that resonates with, many of you's many of your travelers' stories because I know today a lot of attendees are digital nomads by yourself and your experienced,

[06:36:52] you know, globalist as well. So, basically, Cosmo Localism is a visionary framework summarized as design global and how people really, manufacture and connect and creating local wires they connected to the global field. And, Michelle reminds us that the true power of p two p is not just in our computers,

[06:37:15] but what's the real impact is in is how we change computing power to the reality and how to shift the reality around us. And joining him is Vitalik Buterin and the founder of Ethereum. Since you're here, I believe there's no, need to introduce him and such a legendary OG living in our world right now.

[06:37:38] The world knows him for his technical genius in building the world computer, but he has also committed a lot of his personal time into advocating for what is really important for the future human being and what philosophy and value should we uphold. Why are we leaving a more, you know, tech disrupted world, a world with more inequality, a world with more geopolitical tensions?

[06:38:03] So, he has coordinated a lot of discussions regarding how humans can collaborate in the new environment. And yeah. So they will discuss cosmopolies cosmolocalism as well as crypto to real concepts as well as DACC and RACC, which is representing

[06:38:25] regenerative acceleration, and how these two concept is going to help us, frame and envision a better world, besides just pure acceleration of technology. Okay. So right now, without further ado, let's welcome these two important thinkers of our age to start their great discussion.

[06:38:55] Thank you. So we don't have a moderator? You are the moderator, Michelle. Moderator, Michelle. Oh, okay. I'm the alright. Vitalik, maybe you want to start with, you know, explaining you had a tweet a few days ago in which you kind of, like, reset Ethereum.

[06:39:19] You know, the way I remember it is, like, the original dream is in danger, and so you feel is, the need for return to the original values. We can, give a bit of context to that first. So if I'm I always, find it helpful to look back to some of the really, early days of, Ethereum and

[06:39:45] the kinds of things that people were excited about, the kinds of things that people were building, like, toy demo versions of. Right? And, like, especially that time, you know, like, about 2019 or so and even before 2017, there were just a lot of really interesting and special things happening. Right? There were people in experimenting

[06:40:07] with, you know, like, different kind of financial tools also and, you know, there were things like MakerDAO that eventually were kind of the forefathers of modern DeFi, you know, like things like Augur. Also, there was a lot of this work in DAOs, right, these, you know, decentralized autonomous organizations, which like, as time goes on more and more, it's clear that,

[06:40:33] you know, like, it's a a big misnomer. Right? And, you know, the DAOs are definitely not autonomous. But there this idea that, like, we can use on chain logic to try to create new forms of government governance to try to create new different ways to organize how we manage access to resources.

[06:40:59] And there were a lot of also just people trying to, like, create more decentralized and more for of whether, like, Uber or whether it's, like, insurance or a whole bunch of different industries. And there is a lot of this enthusiasm,

[06:41:23] right, around, like, can we make like, can we use some of these kind of digital tools and cryptography and blockchains to really come up with, like, better and, like, more more effective ways for us to org to organize ourselves and to organize, you know, like, how we interact with the world with the, yeah, resources in the world.

[06:41:51] And a lot of that spirit, I think, it got kind of overwhelmed by yeah. Like, first, excitement around the DeFi and then some of the more general excitement that we saw back in 2020 and 2022. And, I mean, I think a lot of the DeFi, yeah, has obviously stuck around, and it's been positive. But, you know, we also saw things like Luna and Terra,

[06:42:17] and then we also saw, you know, like, the mon digital monkeys that were worth $3,000,000. And then now they're, like, down, like, 10 to 50 x, I think. We, yeah, saw oh, like, I mean, a lot of these, like, on chain games where they it, like, seemed for a little bit of time that they were, like, fun games.

[06:42:42] But then, like, once prices went down and all the users, like, left, it just became obvious that people were, like, in it for the speculation, not because the game was fun. Right? And then, like, 2025 was just a a very hard year. Right? Because I'd like I think the really big thing we saw is, like, the Trump MemeCoin. Right? And, the thing with the Trump MemeCoin is, like, once Trump launches a MemeCoin,

[06:43:07] like, that's already the king. Right? Like, you can't have a bigger meme coin than that. And so it's just obvious that, like, okay. This is the end of the journey. Right? And then since then, you know, we saw the Trump meme coin go down by 95%. And so we saw, okay. The king of all meme coins that possibly could happen has arrived. And then the king of all meme coins has dropped by 20 x, and it's just a complete failure. Right? And

[06:43:31] that like, it so it it it feels like the, yeah, kind of condition that the space is in psychologically and is, like, reacting to a lot of a a a lot of those things. Right? And really, yeah, asking the question, well, you know, what is the place of crypto in this world? Right? And ten years ago, it was an easier question to ask because ten years ago, there were just much fewer other things that were happening. Right? But now there's

[06:44:00] AI, there is people going to like like, Starship is actually working. We might be going to to the moon or to Mars soon. There's a lot of biotech. And so if the thing that you're after is you're after a tech scene that just is impressive, then, like, crypto has a a huge amount of competition. Right? And so

[06:44:25] if you're, like and so the thing that crypto has to do now is, like, it can't just, like, be this standard bearer of, like, all impressive technology as a as a category. Right? Like, it has to stand for something more specific. And I think the thing that it has to stand for basically, yeah, is some of these kind of more social and even more political questions, right, of, you know, how do we relate to each other as a world, especially in the context of all of this growing mistrust

[06:44:59] and between countries, within countries, between different companies and different countries, and asking, like, is there a version of modernity that is not that is not saying give up on technology and that is also not saying, you know, give Silicon Valley and, you know, London and Hangzhou and a couple of other cities all over the power. And

[06:45:24] that's like, we have I I think we as a space have to, like, figure like, figure out and articulate more what that is and actually, yeah, execute on it. Thank you, Vitalik. I'd like to go back maybe to what I remember of your origin story. And what I mean with this is that, I think before you created Ethereum or maybe just after,

[06:45:49] you traveled in Spain and you stayed sometime with the Catalan Integral Cooperative, which was kind of like a radical left libertarian on our case experiment, which I think didn't end, so well at the end. And then on the other hand, had Bitcoin, which is kind of the expression of the other side, of the anarcho capitalist,

[06:46:13] libertarian, ethos. And so my feeling has always been that you've been a bit between those polarities and that decentralized accelerationism was is a kind of a okay. I know it's probably not the right metaphor, but in a kind of a kind of a social democratic compromise applied to the digital world where you're kind of in between

[06:46:37] those two options. And so recently, Benjamin Life, I don't know him personally, but we've been communicating quite a while online, and we kind of operating in the same space. He launched a new idea of regenerative accelerationism. So here's the way I see it. You know, acceleration is originally was a kind of nihilistic

[06:47:02] philosophy. Like, capitalism has its contradiction, so they just go and make it even faster so that it kind of collapses and then we can have a chance for something new, which is a very, nihilistic, point. Decentralized acceleration is a miss kind of what you just explained is kind of middle way, around technological development.

[06:47:27] I kind of agree with, Benjamin that it's the the speed at which the world is actually, disintegrating at the very moment, at least the world order is kind of disintegrating, and it's so we have this very dangerous transition time is maybe, you know, we should, accelerate the acceleration

[06:47:50] of alternatives. Right? And I think that's what's being expressed by regenerative accelerationism. And so my then I will add my critique is that Ethereum has been working basically on the field of the representation of value, and, you know, moving value around and, being able to do that without the control of the state. And so many, many, many things around,

[06:48:14] basically, you know, digital representation of monetary value. And I I kind of think that we should go a level down because there's many, many people in the world that try to operate in regenerative productive ways, you know, like healthier food, renewable energy, and those kinds of things.

[06:48:38] And I don't think crypto has been that useful for them as yet. So I was just wondering if you have any general reaction to these kinds of ideas, of using crypto and kind of embedding it more in the productive sector of society. And with that, I don't mean, you know, kind of, the traditional financial investment. Actually, many of the grassroots communities are trying to,

[06:49:05] have a better life. Mhmm. Yeah. I yeah. I I definitely think we, should do more of those things. I guess, maybe one question I would then ask you is, like, what is an example of something that's either in crypto or that is somewhere, like, close to crypto that you think comes the closest to that kind of idea?

[06:49:29] Well, yeah, I can give some examples of things that I'm interested right now. So one is called Gaia OS. There's a man called Rory Tous and a team around him. And so that's a project that created a, like, a full common stack to create commonly owned and commonly managed resources on a planetary scale.

[06:49:52] So it's not specifically just crypto, but it's kind of like a digital, enablement of, property and investment. So kind of imagine fractal ownership and that you can basically appeal to global crowd lending, crowd funding, and that can then kind of settle down at a local level,

[06:50:15] but on the conditions of the local people and then also represented in legal form. So what they did, it's a bit like Materium. You know, they studied the legal systems in many in, like, maybe 60 countries. And so they know how to make trusts in those kinds of institutions. So that's for me, it's a good example. Another example, is in the Jaharas project called civilizational

[06:50:41] options. And so what is what is that is about, his thesis is civilizations only die when they have no options. But the problem is that as we are actually nearing a lot of very serious, you know, thermodynamic climates and other types of crisis, that there's no easy financial mechanism,

[06:51:06] again, to sustain those alternatives, solutions. So here's the way I understand it. It's you know, imagine, for example, you have a problem. Spain is drying up, which is a real case. Right? There's a a drying up of Spain and Portugal. So they are going to have very serious water supply issues. Well, some people are, you know, going back to medieval practices. They're going back in the mountains, creating gullies so that the water stays in the mountains and doesn't get lost in the valley.

[06:51:41] You know, other, people are working on microdams. So today, there's no kind of investment vehicle to sustain these types of ecosystems of solutions. Like, if, you know, if you don't have one simple entity, it's very hard to get investments. So how to do this kind of distributed investment in an easy way? So that's what Indi Johar is working on. Again, he is very crypto aware.

[06:52:07] Another example that I really like is Will Ruddick with sarafoo.network. I don't know if you're familiar with that project. I I really like it. So it's based on, first of all, 1,000 groups of local saving communities. So it's called, rotating savings and loans associations. They're in the global South, very common.

[06:52:31] My own wife is a member of three different ones. So this is also very famous in in in Thailand. So, basically, people save money together, and then the pool allows people to to to do bigger investments on a personal level like buying a motorcycle or a fridge. So we took one ton of these communities, asked them to put 25 percent of their savings in a common pool,

[06:52:55] created an alternative currency with a how do you call that? Fractional reserve of eight. So eight times more value in put it on the blockchain so that it became visible so that now people can actually invest in them and see that a million dollars becomes $8,000,000 for these poor communities. Now on top of that, it has created a commitment pool system,

[06:53:20] and very soon is is actually what we call Cosmo Local Credit. So commitment pool is basically allowing the thousands of members of these communities to offer, services and goods beforehand to have that valued in some way and so create that value. So I think it's called multilateral,

[06:53:43] credit or something like that. Anyway, so these are projects for me that use technology, but directly impact, basically, you know, real communities. And so yeah. So the the kind of idea would be that there's more stress on these kinds of solutions rather than working on the, you know, spec speculative

[06:54:08] side of moving money around faster and with more privacy, which, of course, I think is very important as well. But I think that Ethereum could go, you know, like, levels deeper in its effect on actually changing the productive logic of our world. One of the things that I've noticed when observing,

[06:54:31] like, people trying to do different kind of mechanisms is that it's it's it's hard to convince people to participate in something that they're not already used to. Right? And so, like, in Ethereum, for example, you know, we keeps we we see a lot of people do it trying to do experiments. Like, people keep trying to make harbor ger tax NFTs.

[06:54:56] People keep trying to make assets that have, like, different kinds of conditions attached, to to them. And, like, the thing that you notice again and again, right, is that it's, like, very hard to get people out of the box of, like, just wanting an ERC 20 because an ERC 20 is familiar.

[06:55:21] And even within ERC 20, it's it's like an uphill battle to get people to be interested in something that's not, the US dollar. Right? Like, even something like Rye, which, like, almost is the US dollar except, you know, like, it has this extra factor, which is somewhere around three right now, and it goes up or down by a couple of percent every year. Like, even that is a challenge.

[06:55:44] And I suspect the reason why some of these on chain Roscas and, like, the similar ideas might be more successful in, you know, places like Thailand or in the global South is because those are the environments in which people are used to doing those kinds of structures already. Right? And so

[06:56:07] I guess I wonder then, like, might it be that you know, like, we would actually have to try to figure out different structures for different different regions. Like, the like, do we just need more people in crypto who are more aware of how different part different groups of people in the world already operate and give people,

[06:56:31] like, different options that map onto things that they, yeah, like, kind of already understand instead of just saying, like, here we invented something that's completely new. Maybe I can echo that because I think that's actually a really good point. So kind of my critique on the way that things are funded, and this is not just for Ethereum, but it's a general critique of also, you know, NGO funding and stuff is that,

[06:56:58] so you make money available and then you create conditions to compete for the funding. And so almost automatically, this will attract people with ideas. But it's particularly, I think, strong in the, web three world. I you know, I've been to quite a few of these meetings where, you know, basically geeks imagine how they would,

[06:57:21] change the world, and then they get funded, like, in funding the commons. But what you just said, think, is very important because I the way I understand what you said is that actually looking at what people are already doing, and that is different in different regions of the world. And so so I I I will take a slightly different interpretation

[06:57:48] of what I see happening. I think actually that millions of people are already engaged in alternative practices, but they stay marginal because of, fundamental, issues around funding. And so that's kind of my dream is you have, you know, the 5,000,000,000,000 which is floating in crypto. And,

[06:58:11] you know, if even a a percentage of that could be used to create this kind of regenerative feedback loops, that would make a huge difference on what is possible in the world. I don't know about the timing, so maybe I can ask you. So I think you probably agree with this that we live in a transitional time, that things

[06:58:34] are quite heating up. And you may be in connection with what you just wrote a few days ago about, you know, rejigging Ethereum. How do you see the role of Ethereum in, let's say, the next five years? Because I'm I my feeling is it's gonna be pretty crucial the next few years.

[06:59:03] I think we can we can sorry. I think it's echoing. I think we can see Ethereum at like, I want to see, yeah, Ethereum, like, in something close to the, yeah, kind of web three vision that Gavin Wood was talking about, like, ten years ago, right, where we're basically saying that the core is that we want to have these, like, high value, high guarantee, yeah, decentralized

[06:59:31] applications. And the yeah. And that the big challenge that Ethereum is solving is basically creating this kind of shared compute and shared memory so that, like, they can remember shared facts that which, you know, could be token balances. It could also be a lot of other things that are relevant to their community.

[06:59:57] And, I think that's something which is usable for representing currencies. It's also useful for representing many other kinds of assets. I think it's even useful for representing things where, like, ultimately, you still have to rely on some community to continue to recognize it and provide value to it.

[07:00:22] And I think the goal of if of the Ethereum blockchain should be to adjust the, like, existence to provide that functionality for applications that need it and add a level of, like, high enough scale and high enough convenience that it it it actually makes sense for people to use it that way. And I actually think that with the work in scalability that we're doing now, like, it's we're actually getting there. And,

[07:00:53] like, transaction fees are under $1.01 cent for a lot of things. I expect it will continue to become cheaper over the next, like, one to three years. And, like, at some points, I would want to be able to look at the Ethereum blockchain as, like, just being a layer of the, yeah, of the decentralized Internet and, you know, like, similar to how, you know, like, there's,

[07:01:21] like, the, you know, like, DNS system. There's, like, communication networks. So there's email and have this protocol so that these structures that people wants to build can be built, and they can inter interoperate with each other. And, like, I hope that, you know, the it meant of l one kind of decrease

[07:01:45] over the next ten years to fix that new stuff. What kinds of applications people are building on top of it. So that's, like, how I see the role of Ethereum itself. I think for the role of no. Like, on top of this, so there is this whole separate question of, like, what actually are the right things that

[07:02:15] it makes sense to build and how and how do you actually build them. Right? Because, I mean, like, if you build something like, the way that a lot of these things tends to traditionally be built is basically you have a server, and then the server just has a database. Mean, often, it's not even very sophisticated. Right? And it's like a Google spreadsheet. And it's there's a lot of trust involved. There isn't

[07:02:42] too much like, there is not that much accountability. There also is not much interoperability. Like, here with the blockchains, like, we're talking about a very different paradigm. Right? And so what we saw with DeFi is we saw a lot of thinking about composability, about what it means for, like, two different DeFi projects to interoperate with each other of, you know, flash loans and, like, transactions that, like, jump through five different on chain automated market makers within the same transaction.

[07:03:15] And, like, we saw a lot of this kind of thinking start to emerge organically. And, and so I feel like a similar thing needs to happen for basically everything except for money. And I think we even took some wrong turns. Right? So, like, I think one of the biggest wrong turns that we took is that the DAOs that we saw so far, they were really

[07:03:41] optimized for like, I I think, really, they were not optimized for effectiveness. So they were probably not even optimized for decentralization. I think they were optimized for maximizing legal safety under the regime of Gary Gensler. And, like, you know, in the grand scheme of things, that's, like, not sure you're meaningful. We'll be optimizing the on your side even.

[07:04:07] And so it would be some of us and, like, sometimes I I feel soft codexes that we haven't gotten to. Right? So, like, for example, people like, I noticed like, I often talk to people who wants to put loyalty points on chain.

[07:04:29] And when I ask them why, they say, well, they want loyalty points to be more fungible. But, like, loyalty and fungibility are fundamentally opposites. Right? And so, like, I think if you even say you want loyalty points to be fungible, like, there's a certain confusion of goals that you have there. Right? And, like, there is a fundamental difference between encouraging

[07:04:52] people to stay within a particular community, whether it's an egalitarian community or a corporate community. And, you know, I do and do more things in that community versus what kind of breaking down barriers and encouraging everything to intersect with everything else more. And, like, it would be like like, I still think there's a lot of

[07:05:16] need to, like, really, yeah, think through some of the, yeah, some of the finer details and, like, what you actually want and, like, basically yeah. So so, like, for example, one of the, yeah, definitions I give a finance is, like, finance is the set like, it's a set of features that are common to formalized

[07:05:38] point systems that don't try to prevent collusion. And I have an article that basically talks about, like, why I use this definition. Right? And, like, I compare dollars to, like, say, voting on Twitter. Right? And, you know, if we vote on Twitter, then, like, votes on Twitter that, like, liking and retweeting, they're also a point system. Like, I can give you a like, and then you can see how many likes you have, and it feels good to have more likes.

[07:06:02] But at the same time, like, if we start colluding and we say, well, I'm we're gonna have a ring, I'm going to like all of your tweets, and you like and and you like all of mine, then within the context of, like, the logic of voting, like, that counts as abuse. Right? But within the context of money, I give you a dollar if you give me a euro. That's not abuse. That's just FX. And, like, to me, you know, like, that's

[07:06:26] and so if he wants to start moving away from finance, then, like, you have to have these big concepts of, like, well, mean, like, what type of interoperability do you actually not want? And so and I like, like, I want to also start to see some more of this and, like, a deeper thought on the application layer. So I'm, like, where he, yeah, understands better. Like, what is what what are the things that makes the most sense to build?

[07:06:55] Thank you, Vitalik. We don't hear you anymore, so I think you you stopped. I want to thank you for, you know, v three m so many years ago, and and it's amazing what it has become. And I also want to thank four c's for the huge impact that they're having on Chiang Mai and, you know, making a dynamic cultural and technological life here. And I hope we can see you one day

[07:07:24] in Chiang Mai. Probably already came, and I didn't know about it. Well, it would be great to see you here. So I'm not sure about the time because I don't have a watch with me. I have a feeling oh, we have five more minutes. Okay. That's good. Yeah. Actually, I wanna ask a question to you. So, I I mean, I feel like I've always,

[07:07:49] you know, over the at this point, it's, like, almost two decades that I've seen your name pop up generally associated you with the p two p foundation. And p two p, I think, is an interesting term. Right? Because on the one hand, I think a lot of people who talk about p two p talking and talk about it as something that's not just anti hierarchical in the sense of, like, the hierarchy of governments, but that's, like, also,

[07:08:17] like, even like, critical of corporate hierarchy. And at the same time, I I also remember there was this one time I was listening to this speech at Fudan University, someone was talking about, like, a very his vision of, like, the evolution of Internet protocols. And his vision is, like, the three that he gave was, it was going from SMTP to HTTP to Uber.

[07:08:44] And I thought it was, like, funny, right, because it's this, you know, very different kind of drawing of boundaries of, you know, like, what your p two p or even, like, what protocols are. And so I'm curious, like, how has your view of, what peer to peer means, and also not just technologically,

[07:09:06] but, like, economically and socially. Yeah. And, like, why this is something that we needed, like, evolved over the last decades. Right. Very good question. Thank you. So, basically, I think from the very beginning, you know? And so, you know, sometimes people ask me why Satoshi publishes a white paper on our site. And so I'm thinking that he also recognized something,

[07:09:31] of a family, affair. I think so the difference is that once you have peer to peer in computing, you have peer to peer in humans. And I so so there is a way to interpret peer to peer as a technological system. But what I've always done with the peer to fee p two p foundation is to interpret as a human system. And so what then peer to peer means is essentially

[07:09:56] a new capacity for humankind for trans local self organizing. So the capacity to create common projects to organize to organize value production and distribution without being in the same locality. So peer to peer for me means it's almost like an ethical thing is if I decide to have a common project with somebody who is on the other side of the world, doesn't necessarily pay me

[07:10:25] to and I don't have to obey him, that creates a totally different ethical field of human relationships. Something that was only possible in small groups at the dawn of time in, you know, in small tribal groups now becomes possible at a planetary scale. And so, another aspect of peer to peer would be would be that capacity for stigmergic coordination.

[07:10:51] Right? So instead of needing market signals, or commands and planning, we we now have these vast planetary open ecosystems where people can self, dedicate their time and labor to common projects based on the signaling of other human beings.

[07:11:17] And so if you look at the history of coordination systems, you can say, well, we started in a physical peer to peer in tribal communities expressed as gifting and commoning as the main coordination systems, then we moved to complex civilization with market pricing and state, commands. And I think we are now moving to situation

[07:11:42] where stigmergy becomes the main coordination form. So peer to peer and digital commons together. And then if you ask me what is AI, well, AI is stigmergy without people, basically. And so I think we are actually at this kind of cusp

[07:12:04] of a new civilizational system because if you divide civilization as a relationship between basically the city and the country, its geographic, and now we're creating this new non geographic layer or kind of a new geography that is not physical. And so that means a new civilization.

[07:12:30] And then I look at DAOs and and the stuff that you do, by the way, and all of that stuff as people building institutions for that future, like pre figurative institution building for the next phase of human civilization. I think that makes a lot of sense. Our five minutes are probably,

[07:12:59] over unless you want, some concluding remark. Well, I mean, I guess a yeah. I had a question from you as, like, what are the sorts of things that, like, you would wish to see, yeah, fourth seas and the the hackers that East Chiang Mai to accomplish

[07:13:21] over, let's say, yeah, the next two years? Alright. Well, you know, Chiang Mai is really peculiar because it's a real Thai city. So it's not an artificial construct like, you know, Suzhou Montenegro where, you know, people come in from the outside and and and create, which, you know, is a great experience. I was there. But Chiang Mai has really the unique

[07:13:52] reality that is both a real Thai city, and it has this amazing room for other people like digital nomads. But I don't think it was culturally very dynamic until a few years ago. And if you know that Chiang Mai is in the middle of two thirds of the world population. So if you take 4,000 kilometers,

[07:14:19] around it, you have China, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, The Philippines, Indonesia. I mean, it's amazing. So I think Chiang Mai has the potential to be kind of like a hub, for this shift in the world to, you know, multipolar, which will, you know, largely be,

[07:14:42] more Eurasian than more Asian than than European in in the in the next few years. So I think, yeah, foresees has kind of given an extra push to this kind of potential that we have here. And if I can add one more thing, this is my personal wish. So I think we need to move from an extractive economy to a generative economy.

[07:15:07] So now value is created by extraction. We extract the commodity. It's a supply demand tension gives us a price. We make a profit. And maybe if we're lucky, we tax it or we give it, and we can do some regenerative, work with that value. What if we turn it around? What if we recognize

[07:15:32] what is already happening in open source communities, which is that the value is actually visibly a contributory value. Ethereum is valuable first of all because of the the thousands of people who contribute to the common pool to the open source digital commons that Ethereum represent. And that attracts

[07:15:55] market investment, but the the value is created through contribution. And if we can extend that vision, that value is created through contribution to more than human beings and then recognize that nature and, web of life is creating value. I think this is the kind of key of the transition today.

[07:16:25] Mhmm. Yeah. No. I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, think it's an interesting question to ask. You know, like, what is also the future of Chiang Mai going to be in this upcoming world. Right? Because, like, time I come there, it's just obvious that it's at this like, already at this intersection of, you know, at least three,

[07:16:51] you know, like, cultures. Right? If you include, you know, the the local, you know, like, Thailand and even, like, like, Chiang Mai regional culture, which itself is diverse if you see then if you see the, you know, the Chinese and, of course, the western and the large huge numbers of, you know, digital nomads with

[07:17:16] their avocado toast that have that have already been so deeply rooted there that it's I mean, like, all and it already feels like, you know, like, at least all three of those. And I think probably more that, like, I'm just completely, yeah, completely missing or there already. Right? And at the same time, like, when I, yeah, like, when I think of global centers where a lot of people interact, I think the ones that people think about, they tends to be places more like, you know, Dubai or Singapore

[07:17:51] or places that have this, like, very financial focus to them. And, yeah, my field is unique in that it's, like, an inter that kind of intersection place, but it doesn't have that financial side, and it doesn't have that, like, highly artificial side to it. And that's, like, interesting, and that's unique. And, I mean, I'm

[07:18:13] definitely, yeah, interested to see how that continues to evolve over the next decades and also, I mean, like, what kind of role our community can play. For the organizers to kind of wrap up our session. You know, I'm just a guest like you.

[07:18:40] So I think we we wrap up the session, and maybe you can you can come and take over. So thank you, Vitalik. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Really nice to have the conversation. A huge thank you to Vitalik and Michelle for this impressive conversation. Well, it's rare to see such a profound it's rare to see such a profound alignment between

[07:19:06] cryptographic security and social sustainability. Well, what an incredible conversation. Guys, let's have a one more massive hand for Vitalik and Michelle. Now to bring this journey to its official close, I want to invite the hands and the minds who turned this project into reality.

[07:19:31] They're the engine behind everything we have experienced here in Chumai. Please give a thunderous welcome to our contributors, TK, as they're gonna take the stage for the final remarks to wrap up today's agenda. Welcome. This will be very quick.

[07:19:58] Yeah. So hi, everyone. As Mila said, I'm TK one of the core contributor of YT Tin Wai. So before anything else, thank you for staying with us until this very end of the summit. It started actually on 12/08/2025. So we crossed a year, we crossed the Christmas Eve, We crossed different time zone, language, and the cultural zone and also comfort zone.

[07:20:21] What we tried to have was not only a conference, but the two month Ethereum season long enough for trust to form for people to actually work together, open, build, sell, and try again. Over this two months, HMI efforts through four connected parts. Bootcamp came first, which started on the fifth of last lean last year for the almost two months hands on learning before the hackathon where many of the participants

[07:20:47] later became builders in the hackathon stage. And on conference grew week by week, including eight sessions of cryptocurrency education, our weekly together Tuesday gathering, film screening, and countless informal discussion and bilingual exchange. In total, more than 50 community driven events happen in this season. Then we came to the hackathon with a 120 more builders here

[07:21:12] and 44 projects showcased on the demo day and total price is $11,500,000 US dollars. More importantly, it was not just about the speed, it's about the direction, it's about what they learned. And today we're here at the future summit. The summit is not a traditional finale. It's a response to everything that happened before it. This morning, talked about the Tuzello as a method and seven punk as a real survival skill. What permission is actually

[07:21:39] mean when it's made reality. And this afternoon, we move into cosmopolitanism building locally while coordinating globally and education institution how Ethereum involves a specific infrastructure with hackathon projects grounding into idea into practice. So this is what HDMI has been about, continuity in that moment. And now we'd like to look forward actually.

[07:22:08] Can I? Can I have the PowerPoint for the last This no? It's okay. I would just wanna hear to announce, like, officially announce that East CNY will return for the second edition and start will be on 11/11/2026,

[07:22:33] another two month building season and right after East Mumbai. And before we talk about future, I want to pause here because East was never built by one person. So I just like to invite the core team to come to the stage, and if you can, please just welcome them. The first is Dick. Also, he's the Dick, core contributor of Four Seasons East Timmai. Without him, none of this would be possible. And also here as a core contributor of Four Seasons, they'll also the invisible hands behind these scenes. For example, Nicholas Hu, West, Sumin,

[07:23:04] Ityi, and Lauren. And next is Sherry, beautiful Sherry, running everywhere, holding everything together from the earliest initiation to make this summit land. Mila, our our today's wonderful host, helping bring speakers shaping the opening and the closing moments, and Jiang, who designed the hackathon process and the standard and build everything on social layer

[07:23:32] and making all its human activity visible, connected, structured. Then Shaka, help with the music, the vibe, live streaming, making sure people who could not be here but also see this moment. And Kalina, helping step by step preparing the summit through the on conference phase, making today feel smooth and grounded. And Aurora

[07:23:54] helping heavily in the early stage and later across both the summit and the hackathon, including guest coordination. And Todo is helping with all the materials, which is you see visible today, and she helped with the old boot camp candidates. And, sir, a lovely community soul with English media community operation and volunteer coordination. And yeah. And me, I work on communication media lead and ecosystem connection and host some on conference session. So please give a round of applause for all of us.

[07:24:27] And Gigi, sorry. I was so busy. Gigi is also doing helping with the hackathon and yeah. He was, like, the soul of the hackathon. He arranged all the schedule. Sorry. So take a picture together. No. No. Don't go.

[07:25:03] And also want to invite our volunteers to come forward and also help some helping hand. James, early stage helping with BD and make it public. James, do you come to the stage and Jack help with the copywriting coming to the stage. And today, Bill, Elaine, eBay, Xiaoho, Coco, Vivint, Dandan, and many other volunteers were not in today. Please come to the stage.

[07:25:31] Yeah. This season was, like, two months. It's really long and you guys stayed here. Do a group picture. Okay. And yeah. It's just one sentence. East Tim Ryan 2026 to be continued, but doesn't continue with you. If you are here today and you're already part of this story, and please help us document, spread it, remix it so you can take photos, take photos of food, take photos of the people, and post them on Twitter and tag East Timor and repose and amplify

[07:26:31] and join our Telegram group. And, yeah, we're we're at the first very addition, we're still learning, and we want to grow this with you, not above you. And so let's keep Ethereum local open and human. So that is the end of summit and the end of East twenty twenty five as a wrap. And hope you see you guys on the after East Mumbai, then then it'll be and that's East Mumbai DevCon.

[07:26:54] And then there will be another session of East Tinhua. And now we'll come in. All of you, if you want, come to the stage where you can take a big group photo. Like, everyone is welcomed. If you want to yeah. Please just come. They come to the stage and then we'll have a after party at Forsyth, which is only 200 meters away from here. And after party probably half an hour later and follow with food and drinks and just, like, chill hours.

[07:27:34] Come to the stage. Come to the stage. Patrick, do you wanna come to the stage?

[07:28:13] Okay. You guys ready? We're gonna take a picture. Look at the camera. Okay. Okay. Thank you, guys.

[07:29:10] So as I said, the after party is at 460 Lima, which is only three five five minutes walk away from here. Go see the Zuzalo library of four seas,

[07:39:30] and we'll see you next year at ETH. Take my